Soviet Ribbonbar-good or bad?

[Gerd Becker]

Gents,

this was also in the lot, i got from Alexei today. It already looked puzzling on the photo, Alexei sent me, but i took it though, as it had a chance and it was part of the lot. Its either a nice original with an interesting combination or a put-together.

The only thing, i am really worried about are the double 30years and 40 years Victory Medals, the rest could makes sense in my opinion.

Any comments are welcome...

[Guest Rick Research]

That's a parts fake. Zillions like this around and as you noted, combination makes no sense, and with sloppy double ribbons that are impossible.

1) Doubled 1975s and 1985s impossible.

2) M1958 Long Services for 10, 15, and 20 years service to a 1942 Caucasus veteran-- 10 and 15 impossible--should be MMM and ORS for long service.

3) 5th ribbon for those ugly little enlisted Distinguished awards... silly here.

4) I don't know about the first two DDR ribbons. But the last THREE for Waffenbr?derschaft-- CAN all three be worn together? DID anybody ever get more than a SINGLE one dependent on their rank at the time?

[Gerd Becker]

Thanks for the analyse, Rick. What i expected.

Gerd

[JimZ]

I'd add that apart from what Rick said, the 2 glory and/or victory over germany ribbons also look out of place to me!

Jim

[Gerd Becker]

I'd add that apart from what Rick said, the 2 glory and/or victory over germany ribbons also look out of place to me!

Jim

Thanks, Jim. But its not unusual, that the VoG ribbon was worn as a replacement for the 25 years victory medal on last place. Here is one, which i believe to be original an worn.

[JimZ]

Possibly Gerd.

I admit that I do have a tendancy to forget that little medal. But I still have not figured out how wide spread the practice to use the VOG ribbon was?

Now to go back to quote Rick's earlier post.....

2) M1958 Long Services for 10, 15, and 20 years service to a 1942 Caucasus veteran-- 10 and 15 impossible--should be MMM and ORS for long service.

.... would that not also bring into question the authenticity of the second ribbon bar?

Jim

[Guest Rick Research]

No, I think that one is good:

THAT General must have been a last minute 1943 Caucasus recipient. He's got an MMM (10 years, circa 1953) and a 15 Years Service Medal (1958) which is helped along by there being no Red Star there. It might have been confusing if there had been one for 15 years service.

His only real WW2 decoration was that OPW2. The OPW1 is consistent with those awarded to generals and ex-generals in 1985-- and this ribbon bar dates 1988+.

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

On the DDR ribbons (two on right... second to last row) I believe the first of the two is the NVA Verdienstmedaille in Silver:

And the second of the two is the Verdienstmedaille der DDR (1959) (military version):

The one I've pictured is my civilian version... the military version has the same ribbon and medal but on the standard DDR pentagonal mount.

On the three Waffenbruderschaft medals (three bottom ribbons) I can't swear to it but I do believe they could all be worn at the same time. I have seen two examples of Generals ribbon bars in my copy of Auszeichnungen der Nationalen Volksarmee der Deutschen Democratischen Republik by Feder & Feder, where only one of them... the Gold class (three stripes) is being worn.

Whereas in my copy of Uniformen der Nationalen Volksarmee der DDR 1956-1986, in the color plates showing the various uniforms being worn, I see several examples worn by various General Officers where all three grades of this medal are worn on the ribbon bar at the same time.

Anyhow hope this helps.

Dan

[JimZ]

No, I think that one is good:

THAT General must have been a last minute 1943 Caucasus recipient. He's got an MMM (10 years, circa 1953) and a 15 Years Service Medal (1958) which is helped along by there being no Red Star there. It might have been confusing if there had been one for 15 years service.

His only real WW2 decoration was that OPW2. The OPW1 is consistent with those awarded to generals and ex-generals in 1985-- and this ribbon bar dates 1988+.

Duh Jim!!!! And indeed no 10 year service medal on Gerd's second posting!

No more posts after 22.00 hrs CET for me any more!!!

Jim

[Gerd Becker]

Rick, thanks for the confirmation.

Jim, no worries, happens to me too regularly

Dan, i sent you a pm.

Thanks again everyone

Gerd

[Christophe]

That's a parts fake. Zillions like this around and as you noted, combination makes no sense, and with sloppy double ribbons that are impossible.

1) Doubled 1975s and 1985s impossible.

(...)

Hi Rick,

I agree with you.

But, on the pic below, you will see some doubled ribbons (last row)... And this is a true pic of a true vet ...

Would it be possible that these ribbons are used to symbolise other vet pins? Have you seen this already? Or, maybe just regulations misapplied?...

Cheers.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

Edited April 28, 2007 by Christophe

[Guest Rick Research]

I( think that is just a case of an old and very much retired Former Comrade General not paying ANY attention to regulations, and trying to "neaten up" a slapped on, misplaced last row so it "blends in" with all the rows above rather than having the odd single or double ribbon hanging at the bottom. The whole lower row appears to have been added as a single srip below all the foreign awards.

This looks like simple cheapness. Rather than getting an entirely new "Christmas tree" with everything mounted correctly, the additions have just been stuck on at the bottom.

The way jubilees have been handed out since 1958, I suppose it makes little sense to keep CORRECTLY updating massive arrays like this, for a veteran no longer on active duty.

But it is deeply displeasing in its sloppy contrary to regulations wear.

Thanks for showing a terrific In Wear photo of how reality meets regulations!

[Christophe]

I( think that is just a case of an old and very much retired Former Comrade General not paying ANY attention to regulations, and trying to "neaten up" a slapped on, misplaced last row so it "blends in" with all the rows above rather than having the odd single or double ribbon hanging at the bottom. The whole lower row appears to have been added as a single srip below all the foreign awards.

This looks like simple cheapness. Rather than getting an entirely new "Christmas tree" with everything mounted correctly, the additions have just been stuck on at the bottom. (...)

Not sure, just look how it integrated the two first ribbons of the orders of the Federation of Russia. It is neatly done. The mystery is total... Except if a tradition exists that makes some pins / badges worn / symbolised with ribbons of jubilee medals... Just an hypothesis, and I have nothing at all to confirm it. Pure speculation...

Cheers.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Gerd Becker]

Someone suggested, these might be BOTH versions of these Medals, the military AND the labor type? Is that possible?

[Guest Rick Research]

I do not believe so. I have a KGB officer's group with BOTH Victory Medals... and he had ONLY the combatant victory jubilees.

[Christophe]

And I think he would display the two versions (military + labour) close together...

Ch.