Bundesrepublik 5th Panzer Division Uniform Jacket

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

picked this up last week at a second-hand shop in the town of Cugir, Alba County.

It is in very good condition apart from missing the top button on the jacket.

I would like to identify just what rank of a soldier would have worn it.

Kevin in Deva

[Kev in Deva]

Close up of Unit Flash.

Shoulder straps, seems like something was pinned on?

Kevin in Deva

[Kev in Deva]

Inside of left shoulder strap, slight moth nip.

Collar Tab.

Kevin in Deva

[Kev in Deva]

Right Shoulder strap. Again with indications something was pinned on.

Inner right Shoulder strap.

Kevin in Deva

[Kev in Deva]

Rear of the jacket.

Apart from a tiny label with the number "14" located mid inner collar, this is the only one in the jacket.

Any information greatly appreciated as this is outside my normal collecting area.

Kevin in Deva

[Paul R]

That is a nice one, Kev. I have never found one with the rank remaining on the shoulder straps.

Paul

[David S]

If I'm not mistaken that shoulder patch is for the 5th Panzer Division.

[Kev in Deva]

If I'm not mistaken that shoulder patch is for the 5th Panzer Division.

Hallo Dave S

thanks for the info but . . . . . I think I mentioned that on the Thread Title Post:

But can anybody explain what the difference in the edging that borders the 5th Panzer Division patches mean

Left similar to the jacket patch, right a spare I have.

Kevin (Cheeky Bu*@%r) in Deva

Edited April 17, 2007 by Kev in Deva

[Gordon Craig]

Kevin,

I have all of this info somewhere but can not find it. Must not have brought it with me. Lets start with a Panzer Divisions Org Chart. Panzer Division; Panzer Brigade; Panzer Battalion; 5 Armoured Companies in each battalion #1 being the Headquarters Company (Army structure 5 which was in force during the early to mid 90s). I don't remember how far down the coloured edges on the patches went but if I remember correctly the patch with the black thread would indicate that the wearer was a member of the division headquaters unit. The other colour (yellow on your patch) trim would indicate which Panzer Brigade the wearer served in. Seems to me I remember patches with two coloured borders, but I am not sure of this, that would go down to Battalion level. It is posible that battalions may only have been identified by their pocket badges.

Regards,

Gordon

Edited July 8, 2007 by Gordon Craig

[Gordon Craig]

Kev,

I've had more time today to dig into the colours of the divisional shields. The individual colours around the outside of the shields are; Divsional Headquarters colour would be silver with the black cross stitching. The first brigade would be white; second brigade-red; third brigade yellow. So your tunic would belong to someone assigned to a unit at the Divisional Headquarters and the shield with the yellow border would be for someone in the 3rd Brigade of 5 Panzer Division. If memory serves me right, the 3rd Brigade of a Panzer Division would be a Panzer Grenadier Brigade but don't quote me on that. The Panzer Brigades were numbered sequentially but I do not know what the actual brigade numbers for 5 Panzer Division were.

Cheers,

Gordon

Edited July 9, 2007 by Gordon Craig

[speedytop]

Hi,

you are interested in some more information?

The shields are normally for Brigades and higher, several years ago 3 Tank Regiments had such a shield for some years.

The silver (black/white) colour around the shields is not only for the Divisional Headquarter, it is for the Divisional Troops (Divisionstruppen) too, e.g. Artillerie, Logistic

In this case here the colour yellow is for the 15. Panzerbrigade (post 8).

Please look here:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/5._Panzerdivi...28Bundeswehr%29

I see two different colours on the tab and at the strap?

The tab is more red (korallenrot) for Heeresflugabwehrtruppe (Army anti aircraft), the strap is more orange, and that is for Feldj?ger (MP). Both are Divisional Troops.

Please look here:

http://www.autoflaggen.de/bw/bw_allg_wafarben.htm

"Waffengattung" is the wrong term, there are "Truppengattungen" (branches) with "Waffenfarben".

It was an enlisted man, the rank is not correct to identify, but I think it was a Gefreiter with one stripe (see post 2) and look here:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dienstgrade_in_der_Bundeswehr

ore here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Armed_...d_rank_insignia

Kevin, please have a look into the left inside pocket, pull out the inside, normally you can find there some more information in German jackets.

Regards

Uwe

Edited July 10, 2007 by speedytop

[Kev in Deva]

Kevin, please have a look into the left inside pocket, pull out the inside, normally you can find there some more information in German jackets.

Regards

Uwe

Hallo Uwe

I looked where you suggested and found the following:

White cotton label, stamped in ink in red letters:

SCHWARZ PASSAU = Maker ??

Q / U 1 2 B / 00017 / 90926

over

3 / 71 = Year of manufacture ??

170 / 108 = Size ??

This is then over stamped with a capital letter "I" and "F".

Thanks for all the other info supplied as well

Are many people interested in collecting these items??

Kevin in Deva

[Gordon Craig]

Uwe,

Thanks for the info. I meant troops assigned to Divisional Headquarters in my post. Should have said that I guess.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Uwe,

Re post #11. Interesting comment on the slight difference of colours in the collar tabs and shoulder boards. Since the arm of colour for Military Police and Anti-aircraft are so very close, and two pictures in the same thread don't always reflect the same colour, the tunic could probably be for either organization. Depends what the true colour is under sunlight and what pocket badge one would put on it.

Thanks again for the list of Brigade/Major Generals that served in this division. The only markings in the tunic are for size and washing instructions so it is not possible to date it 100% but I would take a guess at some time shortly before the Division was disbanded in 2001. If this is so, I can at least eliminate some of the names on the list of generals.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Kevin,

We didn't answer your question about how collectible these shields are. I know they are collected but as to how many collectors are pursuing them I can not say. I only have them if they are on a uniform.

Regards,

Gordon

[Kev in Deva]

Kevin,

We didn't answer your question about how collectible these shields are. I know they are collected but as to how many collectors are pursuing them I can not say. I only have them if they are on a uniform.

Regards,

Gordon

Hallo Gordon

while I have some loose / never used Bundswehr shields my question was with regards the jackets, sorry for not having made it clearer.

Kevin in Deva.

[Gordon Craig]

Kevin,

Yes the jackets are very collectible. Especially of course in Germany. I've been collecting them for years. They are inexpensive and with 50 years of the Bundeswehr to cover there are lots of possibilities. The 50th anniversary of the Bundeswehr in 2006 saw a number of new books on Bundeswehr uniforms and equipment published last year. Those highest on the list of collectibles are General officers tunics, tunics with cuffbands, tunics for the Wachregiment and items from the 50s and early 60s especially the camouflage clothing used then. It is a growing area much like the DDR was a few years ago.

Regards,

Gordon