New Medal Bar

[dante]

New medal bar welcome your thoughts and research potential, thanks, Paul

[webr55]

Please show us the back!

Chris

[HeikoGrusdat]

very very interesting.............................

[dante]

very very interesting.............................

[dante]

Better photo, would I be right in thinking this is possibly a diplomat?

[Paul C]

I would say research potential is very good. Look through the 1914 Prussian army and navy ranklists for anyone with the Oldenburg with crown, Wurttemberg Freidrich and 26 year LSC. Probable at least Hauptman rank with the centennial. You then need to cross check the suspects to the DOA 1908/09 for the china medal. Having just looked through the 1914 Army RL I can say there are not that many with a Oldenburg with crown.

[webr55]

Not a diplomat. What you have here - RAO and Crown Order moved up to the neck - is a Prussian General. Question is whether this is a pre-WW1 bar, as there are no WW1 awards. A General would have had at least some war awards on his bar, I think.

[dante]

Can any one help ? do not have have access to lists

[Deruelle]

Hi,

I agree with Chris, it's a pre War medal bal. No iron cross. This officer may died during the first weeks of the war. A very nice bar.

Regards

Christophe

[webr55]

I couldn't find him as a General in the 1914 RL. Maybe he was zD already by then.

[saschaw]

Or it isn't a general, but a Prussian officer shortly before he got a Red Eagle IVth class, but yet two "foreigners"?!

Is this impossible?

[Guest Rick Research]

All I ask is that you name your firstborn son after me.

Niemöller, Infantry Regiment 69 in 1914, commanded to the German Embassy in Santiago, Chile-- page 237 1914 Prussian/Württemberg Rank List:

joined the German army 19 September 1891 and transferred to the Marines 2 July 1900. Presumably back to the army when promoted to Captain in 1908 (still Marines in the Navy 1908 Rank List as Oberleutnant)

Leutnant 14.01.93

Oberleutnant 16.01.01 Qq

Hauptmann 10.09.08 O4o

Major 18.04.15 Ww

charakterisiert Oberstleutnant aD, alive in 1926

1900: II. Replacement Sea Battalion, Wilhelmshaven (steel medal for waving bye bye to China expedition)

1902: detached from II. Sea Battalion to Ships' Boys Division

1905: II. Sea Battalion

1906: III. Sea Battalion with the East Asian Occupation forces, Tsingtau

1907: still on duty with III. Sea Battalion in Tsingtau, China

1908: same but back home with the Stamm III. S.B.

1909-13: commander 3rd Company Infantry Regiment 69

1914: as mentioned above

final wartime position: Commander of Infantry Regiment 347 in 87th Infantry Division.

He has a quite uncharacteristic XXV without a Prussian "long service" Order because of his overseas "double time" before the war: double time for China 1905/6 to 1908.

Whenever I see Oldenburg and Württemberg, I think Marine Infantry. Checking the 1914 Navy Rank List (because it is more detailed than the army one, with Marines listed by BOTH)... no match.

My second thought was a Feuerwerks, Zeug or Festungsbau officer, since they were the only pre-1914 category of officer eleigible for the XXV who routinely had NO Prussian long service Order (crown Order 4 or Red Eagle 4 by branch and rank). No such luck.

So I backtracked. Indeed, there he was in the Sea Battalions with his WF3b. Then went forward checking him and matched up the other Order and long service.

His Orders Almanac entry unhelpfully does not list his first name or birthdata.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Dave Danner
fix diacritic

[dante]

I have two daughters they are yours, oh and a dog....wife.... house its yours, well perhaps not the dog !, many thanks, only picked it up last weekend had a preview of a show first thing I saw.....many thanks, Paul

[dante]

I have two daughters they are yours, oh and a dog....wife.... house its yours, well perhaps not the dog !, many thanks, only picked it up last weekend had a preview of a show first thing I saw.....many thanks, Paul

Oh did he get any other medals I would like to get a representation of his entitlement again thanks

[Guest Rick Research]

OK, that's fair. Glenn can have your spare daughter when he finds more information than I have.

An exceptionally nice bar-- I do not have numbers for the Oldenburg House Order, but it is a peach. Probably the second most hand worked Order of Imperial Germany after the Brunswick House Order of Henry the Lion. With all that fine, single-hair brush hand painting never even visible on the reverse side. These cost a fortune to make at the time, and were not handed out casually.

I haven't found him yet on any other WW1 award rolls, so aside from the two Iron Crosses, that may have been it for him.

His Major's seniority section from the 1 January 1919 Prussian Württemberg Seniority List:

Edited November 1, 2023 by Dave Danner
fix diacritic

[dante]

wondered if anyone had anymore information on the Oberst?