Soviet Order of the Red Star

[Simon F]

Hi Guys

Can some one tell me a little more about the order of the red star. I have some that I have bought in Russia and the Ukraine during my visits in the Navy but know nothing about them. One seller told me the lower they were numbered the better the materials/metals used in making them. Apart from that they were drunken Sailors gizzits (presents) and my 4 year old nephew has a few including some nice and as yet un researched medals with paper work which may yet come my way (as easy as candy from a baby )

Thanks

[Guest Rick Research]

Naaaah... serial numbers are useful in DATING them (list 'em and you will see) but as for interesting or better?...

I have a 1980 one that was awarded to a Colonel-"advisor" for crushing rebels as actual commander of an Afghan division. That's a whole lot more exciting and interesting than a 1944-57 routine award for 15 years service!

I'd say the HIGHER the number, after 1957, the more likely to be for something ... interesting.

Most, of course, will be either for WW2 or the 1950s long service awards.

[Simon F]

Thanks Rick

[Chris S]

The Red Star along with the Order of Lenin was a very prestigious award...then they started to give them for long service and lesser acts, the early ones were definitely hard won.

This is a 15K award...probably for the winter war with Finland.....or for making cups of tea for his boss...

Chris

[Guest Rick Research]

As a late 1940 or very early "pre-WW2" 1941 number, THAT could be quite interesting indeed, researched!

[Simon F]

I take it with such a high number, mine wont be as exciting

[Simon F]

Front

[Gerd Becker]

I take it with such a high number, mine wont be as exciting

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Probably not, but its a nice wartime (end 44 to mid 45) example though.

Gerd

[Guest Rick Research]

I'd put it at May 1945 from that number, so it could be for the capture of Berlin... or something completely weird.

Soviet military orders were handed out as "all purpose" decorations. I have a Patriotic War 2nd Class which was for exceeding sales quotas in the divisional shop (tea kettles and vegetables ). Only research can tell...

and yet that is so expensive that it is usually not worth it, unless the award is part of a documented group showing other awards, campaign medals that give clues about a career--or not-- and so on.

[byf]

I have a contact in Russia. He says it very very hard to find much if any WWII Soviet gear such as helmets or telogreikas or fur hats. I think medals are easier to get because a lot of them found there way west.

byf

[Wild Card]

I have a contact in Russia. He says it very very hard to find much if any WWII Soviet gear such as helmets or telogreikas or fur hats. I think medals are easier to get because a lot of them found there way west.

byf

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Hi byf -

Your point is well taken; but consider... more medals found their way west because they take less space (volume vs. value) and there was, when the wall came down, a more established Soviet medal collecting community in the west.

Keep in mind also, that although there are medals to be found in Russia today, trying to take them out of the country, under the current attitudes/enforcement of the laws, could extend your visit to The Motherland indefinitely.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Guest Rick Research]

Here is why LATE Red Stars are not boring at all:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1937

[ehrentitle]

Here is mine, picked up when I was stationed in West Berlin in the late 1980s. I know nothing about it, except I assumed it was a WWII issue. Would appreciate your comments. Kevin

[ehrentitle]

And the reverse side:

[Gerd Becker]

And the reverse side:

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Thats also a wartime Red Star. After my Database it should also be from Begin to Mid 1945.

@Rick: Thats just fantastic. I would love to own a Korean-War awarded example. I have seen a wonderful Red Star for Korea (S/N 3.799.XXX) on ebay, but this morning it was gone

Gerd

Edited August 20, 2005 by Gerd Becker

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup, April or May 1945 from that 1,2XX,XXX range.

What I'd like to know is what has happened to all the partial groups with a couple of awards, the Orders Book, and very often a random couple of campaign and postwar jubilees all to the same guy, which used to FILL tables at militaria shows in the mid 1990s?

Where are all the documented groups? I'm not talking Marshals of the Soviet Union, but lower officers, NCOs, and the like? Back in "Igor catalog" days, there were PAGES of that kind of offering, with half a dozen awards still together.

[Gerd Becker]

Yup, April or May 1945 from that 1,2XX,XXX range.

What I'd like to know is what has happened to all the partial groups with a couple of awards, the Orders Book, and very often a random couple of campaign and postwar jubilees all to the same guy, which used to FILL tables at  militaria shows in the mid 1990s?

Where are all the documented groups? I'm not talking Marshals of the Soviet Union, but lower officers, NCOs, and the like? Back in "Igor catalog" days, there were PAGES of that kind of offering, with half a dozen awards still together.

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Please, Rick, its depressing to hear that. Why did this dumba** only start that late to collect these? I should have started with Soviet stuff instead of Minis, although they were nice though.

Gerd

[ehrentitle]

Thanks Rick/Gerd, This was an inexpensive flea market find in Berlin around 1988 or 89. Wish I had the forsight to buy more of this kind of stuff back then when this stuff was inexpensive and just starting to flow out of the east. Kevin

[Guest Rick Research]

I think many Soviet SELLERS back then deliberately tossed away the paperwork that documented awards, either to hide who the recipients were (embarassed to be selling Papa's medals, or afraid they'd get in trouble from the authorities) or

because 90% of western collectors could not READ Russian, and so weren't interested.

I can, so I used to "cherry pick" partial groups. I could never afford really big ones-- even then, Lenin groups were beyond what I had available to pay.

But for new collectors just getting into Soviet collecting, I can only recommend that the more documentation you have on awards, showing the recipient's name and type of service, the easier it is to judge whether expensive research is worthwhile.

ANY loose Red Star could have belonged to a Hero of the Soviet Union and Marshal of XYZ Branch. Or a private in a supply unit. Not to EVER dmean the valor and service of the "little comrades" but research is expensive enough that if adding VALUE as well as satisfying curiosity is intended, it is only "worth" doing research whose information WILL add more value than it costs to get done. I've been surprised BOTH ways-- and

[Gerd Becker]

Well, i want to research all of my numbered awards, just because i can. I love to know the history behind the awards, i have. Even if its a simple Military Merit Medal, i don?t care, as long as i can add a face and the story, this Order or Medal(on his owner) went through.

Even if i will be able only to afford the common stuff, i do enjoy it. And right, you can be lucky and find a real treasure, which belonged to someone important.

[kimj]

I have a Red Star with serial number 3 598 324. It's the highest I have ever had the chanse to buy. Any thoughts on when it was issued?

In the Shishkov book he gives some time between 1961-67. But that is a pretty dull guess...

/Kim

[Guest Rick Research]

I've seen 3,569,934 on May 6, 1965 and 3,620,853 in 1968 (a late award for 1943) so in between there. From later numbers, they seem to have slowed down to about 10,000 a year, so probably 1968 or late 1967.

By contrast, in the last great "burst" of these, over 100,000 were awarded on 30 December 1956, when I have seen multiple numbers betweem 3,446,XXX and 3,554,XXX ALL on the same day = the huge "last gasp" of 15 years service awards for the Patriotic War call up class of 1941, I suppose.

[Wild Card]

Yup, April or May 1945 from that 1,2XX,XXX range.

What I'd like to know is what has happened to all the partial groups with a couple of awards, the Orders Book, and very often a random couple of campaign and postwar jubilees all to the same guy, which used to FILL tables at  militaria shows in the mid 1990s?

Where are all the documented groups? I'm not talking Marshals of the Soviet Union, but lower officers, NCOs, and the like? Back in "Igor catalog" days, there were PAGES of that kind of offering, with half a dozen awards still together.

←

Hi Rick,

When I want a good shot of nostalgia, I just take a trip down memory lane through an old ?Igor catalog?; hence, like you, I have often pondered this same question; and may have some (sort of) good news.

First, did you, by any chance, attend the recent OMSA convention in Atlanta? The reason I ask is that, in my opinion, there was the best selection of Soviet material there that I?ve seen in a number of years. Still not up to the good old days; but a big improvement.

Now for the bad news - you knew that was coming. I would guesstimate that, since eight to ten years ago, prices on low end pieces have increased by three times while the higher end pieces have increased by five. At the same time (good news), I was told by a knowledgeable source that these prices are now bringing some material back onto the market. Unfortunately, more than ever before, this material is going back to The Motherland and once there, it?s out of sight and circulation for the foreseeable future.

So, there it is as I see it.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[kimj]

Thanks Rick

If I ever research it I'll post the result and we'll see how close you were.

/Kim

[Gerd Becker]

Hi Rick,

When I want a good shot of nostalgia, I just take a trip down memory lane through an old “Igor catalog”; hence, like you, I have often pondered this same question; and may have some (sort of) good news.

First, did you, by any chance, attend the recent OMSA convention in Atlanta? The reason I ask is that, in my opinion, there was the best selection of Soviet material there that I’ve seen in a number of years. Still not up to the good old days; but a big improvement.

Now for the bad news - you knew that was coming. I would guesstimate that, since eight to ten years ago, prices on low end pieces have increased by three times while the higher end pieces have increased by five. At the same time (good news), I was told by a knowledgeable source that these prices are now bringing some material back onto the market. Unfortunately, more than ever before, this material is going back to The Motherland and once there, it’s out of sight and circulation for the foreseeable future.

So, there it is as I see it.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

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Wildcard, i am not convinced. If thats the case, why are, for example, the two awesome groups on CollectRussia still available. At least one of them is a once-in-a-lifetime group, so where are the whealthy Russians now? I hear everybody saying similar things lately, but i think, the demand over there does not correspond to the crazy price increase in the last years.

Just my two EuroCents...

all the best,

Gerd