France Medal Group

[Hendrik]

Hello Thierry & All,

I think the various bars are as follows :

Colonial Medal : TUNESIE 1942-43, BIR HACHEIM 1942, LIBYE, ERYTHREE, AFRIQUE FRANCAISE LIBRE, MAROC 1925, MAROC.

WW2 Commemorative Medal : ALLEMAGNE, FRANCE, AFRIQUE, NORVEGE.

Some thoughts :

1. The Italy bar on the Commemorative Medal for the Italian Campaign should be on the WW2 Commemorative Medal. As this in effect replaces the campaign medal that one should no longer be part of the group.

2. The wound bar on the WW1 Commemorative Medal was only created in 1952. Being wounded in WW1 would have caused the recipient of this group to wear an enamelled red star and not the bar on its ribbon.

3. The Polish Valour Cross is on the 1st type ribbon as awarded to Polish military in exile ... not 100 % sure but I don't think crosses with that ribbon went to non-Polish personnel.

4. USA Legion of Merit Officer class would indicate the group belonged to a General or Admiral ... does this fit with the "only" officer class of the French Legion of Honour ? I have my doubts.

And ...

5. the detail that made me unhappy about this group in the first place : the crossed swords on the Belgian Crown Order indicate a BELGIAN veteran of WWI ... These swords were created in 1939 and were only awarded to Belgians !

So, are we now looking for a French general and no doubt well-known hero but with dual Belgian and French nationality ??? I'm afraid that is too farfetched for me but I'd be happy to learn of any such person having been around !

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks, Hendrik! Very often, when it seems "too good to be true" it is because it is (too good), and isn't (true).

The clouds of doubt gather . . . .

[922F]

Though there's no Brazilian or Cuban WW II award nor a "Patton/Eisenhower medal", this fellow may have been part of a "General" Frank Denis cohort!

Or more likely not, as wearing unearned decorations in France was/is a quite serious offense. Basic entitlement to an officer of Black Star of Benin generally means 7-12 years' noncombat service (perhaps in the 1920s-30s often in French West/Central Africa but not necessarily there and by WWII no significant link to service in Africa or time limits but still a possibility). Chevalier of Star of Anjouan required 5 years in Indian Ocean (or nearby) territories, Ouissam Alaouite Chevalier would be about the same time in Morocco, unless involved in combat --then less time, and the Nichan Iftikhir Officer usually 6-10 years though in Tunisia. However, one could basically buy a Nichan Iftikhir {or upgrade one} if "contributing" to the Bey's Muslim welfare fund. So, possibly, at least 18-25 years' peacetime service in colonial terrorities or about half that during war. The Colonial Order usually connected with peace-time service in Erythree typically might be the Nichan el-Anouar with Black Star of Benin a distant second, no? Of interest--The Ouissam Alaoute is on the FIRST type ribbon, so unless this was one of the replaced ribbons, another suspicion factor.

Worth noting is that senior French colonial office bureaucrats often held multiple colonial awards often without satisfying the normal/peace time period requirements. This group, however, clearly does not fit that model.

Other French groups (some on display in the Invalides, Legion of Honor and Liberation Order museums) have Belgian Crown or Leo II order insignia with swords on the ribbon, defying the applicable regulations. This may be intended to show "military" rather than civil entitlement.

In this overall context, the Norway medal is another very unusual award. Yes, but it relates/connects to the WW II Commo medal "Norvege" bar!! Hendrick outlines a couple of excellent points about the group and there may be several more but we don't want to reveal everything, do we??

This all tends to refer once again to the liaison/attache/journalist "odd man", oh ye of little faith !! Yet, on the other hand, who would go to the effort of lashing this up, unless a Denis cohort?

[Thierry]

Merci pour ces analyses.

Je sais maintenant quoi penser de cet ensemble.

Thanks for these analyses.

I can now what think of this unit.

Cordialement

Thierry

[Veteran]

Hello 922F

Please tell us about the "General" Frank Denis cohort !

Best regards

Veteran

[922F]

Hello 922F

Please tell us about the "General" Frank Denis cohort !

Best regards

Veteran

While off thread, here goes. These comments should not be taken to malign the {unlikely but without documents who knows?} medal group under discussion nor to insult memories or reputation of Frank Denis.

Frank Denis was an American supposedly of French {?} origin. In the 1960s-'80s he collected awards {and hats!} allegedly the former property of marshal or 5 star general rank non-US officers. 1970s and '80s Medal Collectors include articles he wrote concerning such officers. Most of these articles offer handy but incomplete information, however, the photos are interesting. The articles' worth lies in exposing OMSA members to hitherto largely ignored personalities.

Frank may have served in WW II either as French or American soldier. When he first appeared at OMSA conventions, maybe a Chicago or the first Silver Spring event, he dressed in civvies but sported several French rosettes in his lapel, including a Legion of Honor, Order of Military Merit, Black Star of Benin, etc. As the years passed Frank showed up wearing a French army captain's, then colonel's uniform with additional medals and by the late 1970s had added Polish, Brit, Tunisian, American, Italian, and Dutch awards. He joined and may have served as an officer of a number of questionable or little known "veteran's societies" which included wearable distinctions of the sort one pays "passage fees" to earn. Frank actively solicited OMSA members to join such organizations. Most of these groups served "commemorative ends". That is, they enabled individuals {including those with no military or other service whatsoever} to, in essence, buy a couple of {dare I hint--VANITY} medals complete with fancy diplomas. At least one OMSA convention included a "co-located" meeting of one of Frank's societies. Some attendees in full dress with decorations crashed the bourse, or was it the cocktail hour?

Frank's rank continued to rise along with the numbers of decorations until he finally appeared in a French General's full dress uniform with nearly as many gongs as Idi Amin. He bought a Brazilian Southern Cross Grand Officer set and a {pre-Castro} Cuban Military Merit commander at a mid-1980s Chicago or California convention from a well known dealer and then showed up at the pre-banquet cocktail wearing them. This straw finally broke the camel's back and he was advised {by the OMSA President and Board of Directors, including Jeff Floyd?} to halt this practice. Believe he never attended a convention afterwards.

I disremember which Medal Collector convention issues include photos of him in full fig but a couple of them picture "Colonel to General" Denis in French uniform bedecked with assorted goodies. Perhaps he exemplifies a personality type that, over time, confuses reality with his collecting mania. "Legitimacy" implied by not being challenged over his ranks and/or awards plus adulation by "followers or mentees" attracted to the "Veterans' organizations" likely buttressed his obsessions.

Frank could have been a francophone "STOLEN VALOR ACT" posterchild!

[Veteran]

Thank you very much for this (rather sad) story, which you have told with moderation and understanding.

A very old member of OMSA myself (n?10..) , I rushed to my book-shelf and sure enough found the June1975 issue of the Journal; there was the story of this person's life.. up to his "promotion" to the rank if general in the French Army Reserve, as introduced by the then Editor Frank von Allendorfer.

He must have been a master impersonnator. Apart from that, the paper on French Marshals was quite good, as you say.

I had completely missed him. Too bad we never met, I would have loved to discuss WW2 Foreign Legion with him, since he claimed he had belonged !

Best regards

Veteran

[922F]

Thank you very much for this (rather sad) story, which you have told with moderation and understanding.

A very old member of OMSA myself (n?10..) , I rushed to my book-shelf and sure enough found the June1975 issue of the Journal; there was the story of this person's life.. up to his "promotion" to the rank if general in the French Army Reserve, as introduced by the then Editor Frank von Allendorfer.

He must have been a master impersonnator. Apart from that, the paper on French Marshals was quite good, as you say.

I had completely missed him. Too bad we never met, I would have loved to discuss WW2 Foreign Legion with him, since he claimed he had belonged !

Best regards

Veteran

I appreciate your comment/feedback as my intention was not to present Frank Denis as a deliberate, conniving imposter but rather as a person tending to delusions of grandeur who got carried away. His military service stories were logically constructed for several years but, as he "rose in rank" and had to "explain" honors from an extraordinary number of nations in a wide and ever expanding variety of theatres of operations, became rather obtuse and convulated. Frank would get rather testy when closely questioned in his later years. And......He was/is not the only person to slide down this slippery slope!

Back to the thrust of this thread. It appears that the Ouissan Alaouite chevalier's insignia included in this group is of 1926-34 vintage based on the use of the first type ribbon and the form of the badge. Compare with page 121, Ordres et Decorations de l'Empire Cherifien, Versailles, 2005. Previous sources claimed the ribbon was changed in 1928 to avoid confusion with the Legion of Honor when worn in the lapel but the cited source's extensive documentation clearly verifies the later 1934 date. My memory still hews to the incorrect, much earlier change, for which I apologize.

I cannot clearly view/interpret the Bey of Tunis' name on the Nichan Iftikhir but that should provide a date range for the award. The name may be Muhammed al-Munsif (June 1942-May 1943) or Muhammed al-Amin (May 1943-March 1956). Al-Amin became King of Tunisia upon independence and ruled for about a year before Bourguiba declared the country a republic.

Edited September 12, 2007 by 922F

[Veteran]

Thank you, 922F, for this interesting message.

Coming back to this very special group, I still wonder if it was made up. A lot of it makes sense. This man could well have served for quite some time in Marocco between wars and the Tunisian order come with his participation in Tunisian campaign in 1942.

Now who he may have been is an other stroy again. But I have personnally lived through those days and I do know some extraordinary things happened to unusual people.

Best regards

Veteran

[922F]

Hello Veteran,

Determining the "reality/originality" of this group is quite difficult. As you say, odd groups are not in themselves fake ab initio. If anyone ever saw W. Churchill's pre WW I group (and Brit medals were unnamed!), it certainly would appear highly suspect!

The circumstances when located are immaterial to me in examining the issue as they have little to do with "genuine" vs. "lash up". Career progression could argue pro or con too. The number of colonial orders actually is not too unusual nor, given the examples cited earlier, are the non-statutory swords on the Belgian Crown Order ribbon. The question of presence or absence of name on the Legion of Merit doesn't really worry me but the officer degree raises serious question. Analysis of that piece itself (composition and ribbon material) might be informative.

Even the former owner's ignorance of the holder's name is not necessarily bad. I certainly have seen some groups for sale in flea markets by distant relatives or junkmen who had no idea of the history.

I suppose the "overall feeling", including patina, wear, etc is a useful factor. If Thierry remounted everything, then enamel damage or metal wear probably is not a reliable guide. Hendrick's thoughts on the matter, especially the Polish award ribbon and the bar issues, clearly deserve resolution. If the group was actually worn in France, then the possibity of substantial penalities for wearing awards not earned might tend to legitimate the group.

[Chris Boonzaier]

A comment to the bar question.

I know a number of legionnaires from the 2nd REI that added the "Infantry" bar to their national defense medal although they did not qualify for it. Guys from the 3rd REI apparently did.

This was because the 3rd is pure infantry and the 2nd has APCs and are mechanised infantry. There is no Mech Inf bar so they go without. Adding the bar does not give any great distinction, it just ppints to your branch.

Added to "add ons" like this, most bars are made by tailors who mount from a grab bag of goodies, and I am sure there are a number of errors that occur. They tailor tunics all day and slap together ribbon bars at tea time.... plenty of room for error...

[Bill Dienna]

Here are the criteria for the award of the US Legion of Honor as the now appear on the Pentagon website:

Members of the United States military receive the Legion of Merit medal which is issued without degree. However, when bestowing the Legion of Merit upon members of foreign militaries or governments, the Legion of Merit is issued in the following degrees:

Chief Commander - Chief of State or Head of Government

Commander - Equivalent of a U.S. military Chief of Staff or higher position but not to Chief of State.

Officer - General or Flag Officer below the equivalent of a U.S. military Chief of Staff; also a Colonel or equivalent rank for service in assignments equivalent to those normally held by a General or Flag Officer in U.S. military service or Military Attaches.

Legionnaire - All recipients not included above

However, this was not the criteria for award in World War II or the subsequent years. For example, I have the award document for the Legion of Merit to a Colonel of a Soviet Guards Infantry Unit, together with the transmittal letter signed by President Truman. This Colonel received the Legionaire grade of the award. Marshal Zhukov, who was neither a Chief of State nor Head of Government, received the Chief Commander Grade. Numerous Soviet Marshals recieved the Commander grade and can be seen wearing it on their victory parade uniform portraits.

Additionally, the original headquarters of NATO was in Paris. If this fellow existed and was serving post-war, that might also be a source of the award.

It would be interesting to know if the Legion of Merit bears any markings, since that might help date it. The officer's device on the ribbon should be gold, but this one appears to be tarnished silver, making me wonder if it is an older sterling silver-gilt device that was originally gold but which has darkened with age.

Edited October 10, 2007 by Bill Dienna

[Harvey]

Just found this fascinating topic thread today - what an interesting set of medals and the possible story behind them!

It seems that it's been over 3 years since anyone has commented - is there no new information re. this set of medals and the possible recipient of such?