Anatoly13 Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Hello gentlemen! I m glad that I find this forum - very nice place! I read all topics at first . And I want to show you some items from my collection wich I don't look here. Sorry for my English. <img src="http://gmic.co.uk/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="sad.gif" /> So, Order of Merit of the Hungarian People's Respublic 4 cl.
Ed_Haynes Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Oh . . . Thanks for posting this set, Anatoly!
Guest Rick Research Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 SUPERB documented set!!!! Do you have any other awards paperwork identifying the rank and unit of the Soviet officer?
Anatoly13 Posted September 23, 2007 Author Posted September 23, 2007 Ed,Rick, thx for reply.I will search in my chests
Gordon Craig Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 (edited) Anatoly,Thanks for posting this nice set of awards and documents. I need to make a couple of comments here. First, you have two different awards in this case. The documents are for The Order of Merit of the Hungarian Peoples Republic IV Class; The fourth class award consists of the star only. The award suspended from the ribbon is The Order of Merit of the Hungarian Peoples Republic V Class. The case appears to have been made specifically to hold both of these orders at the same time and this is the first time I have seen them this way. There is a depression below the 4th class star which was probably for the fifth class award ribbon. It is probably missing because it was put on the Russian officers ribbon bar. The other thing to note in this set is the date of the award document; April 4, 1950. That would have been the day of the parade to celebrate the fifth year since the liberation of Hungary by the Russian Army. The parades were always held in Budapest, on this date, and awards to foreigners who attended the parade was a common occurance. It is too bad that the award documents for the 5th class award are not with this set. Perhaps you could trace the 5th class award documents through the place you got this set.Regards,GordonI have to add some more comments after looking at the post again. The award document, the large one, appears to have been signed by the president of the Council of Ministers. The organization in the government who decided who received what award. The small document, issued to carry with you to prove you had the right to wear the award, appears to have been signed by the Minister of Defense. Also, the rank of the Russian officers is that of full Colonel (EZREDES).Some more comments. According the Large Medals book, only 745 of the 4th class were awarded and 1619 of the 5th class. There must have been an extremely small number of these wards presented this way as a cased set. A real pleasure to see these awards in their case. Thanks again Anatoly. Edited September 23, 2007 by Gordon Craig
Anatoly13 Posted September 23, 2007 Author Posted September 23, 2007 Gordon,I cant agree with you. IV class is not Star only!But you re right abt ribbon.If I have ribbon - will be full set.Case is original for IV class.This set came to me from child of owner.
Gordon Craig Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Anatoly,Sorry but we must disagree then. Here is a pciture from my reference book on Hungarian awards showing the 4th and 5th class awards.Regards,Gordon
Guest Rick Research Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Is not the RIBBONED star what the Austro-Hungarians called a"Kleindekoration"?That is, it shows the PINBACK star device on the ribbon, and is a "reduced" form of wear for "day to day" (by Hungarians, at least)-- saving the actual pinback version for full formal occasions?This is an Austro-Hungarian example-- a KLEINDEKORATION of the Military Merit Cross 2nd Class "with swords" (normally worn around the neck--note ribbon on device) in "reduced wear" everyday medal bar form:There would be many devices for higher classes, worn on the lowest appropriate ribboned version, if the Communist Hungarians continued this old, normal Hapsburg practice of wearing breast, neck, and sash badges off a medal-bar grade LOOKING award.Notice the the plain old 5th class award does NOT have the star device on the ribbon!
Anatoly13 Posted September 23, 2007 Author Posted September 23, 2007 Gordon!Please reed page 191 ,last line in No 532.There are not picture of full set in this book,Star only.And you re absolutely right abt docs.
Anatoly13 Posted September 23, 2007 Author Posted September 23, 2007 (edited) This is 1 cl. 'for every day'Star used for parades etc. Edited September 23, 2007 by Anatoly13
Guest Rick Research Posted September 23, 2007 Posted September 23, 2007 Yes, so there WERE other devices for different classes! Maybe Hungarians had to BUY such Kleindekorations if they WANTED one... but a fancy presentation to an important Foreign Comrade was issued one. Though I can't imagine a Soviet ever wearing a Kleindekoration form, since he would only have worn the full-parade-dress version normally.
Gordon Craig Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 Anatoly,I see what you are saying. You are correct and I did not read the full description correctly. For those that do not have a copy of the Large Medals book, the last line in 532 translates into English as; ?Medal for Wear: the 5th class medal with ribbon and attached to the ribbon is an 18mm smaller representation of the enamelled star.? My apologese to all for my error.If I see a ribbon for this set I'll send it to you.Regards,Gordon
Anatoly13 Posted September 24, 2007 Author Posted September 24, 2007 This is photo with 2 elements of order.
Gordon Craig Posted September 24, 2007 Posted September 24, 2007 Anatoly,Very interesting picture with both the 4th and the 5th class awards being worn. Interesting that the 5th class is not on the medal bar but fastened to the tunic by itself. Thanks very much for posting this picture. Great for reference purposes.The ribbon bar for the 4th class. So I would know one when I saw it, I did some studying this morning. I knew that the Merit Medal of the Hungarian Peoples Republic had a similar star, and the same ribbon, so I compared the sizes of the stars that would have been attached to the ribbon of both awards. The star on the ribbon of Merit Medal of the HUPR is 15mm in diametre. The star device on the 5th class ribbon of the Order of Merit is supposed to be 16mm. I would imagine it was more vaulted then the Merit Medal but the difference in the size is so small it might not be noticeable. The star on the ribbon of the 4th class would be easier to spot because it is 18mm in diamtre and therefore would extend onto the national colour stripes on the ribbon. Here is a picture of the ribbon of the Merit Medal of the HUPR, showing the star, for reference purposes. I've learned a lot from this thread. Thanks very much for starting it. Looking forward to seeing more of your HUPR awards posted here.Regards,Gordon
Anatoly13 Posted September 24, 2007 Author Posted September 24, 2007 Gordon!You did same mistake. :-)This is not 4 and 5 classes on this photo.It is the same order,that we discussed,but soviet officers who was awarded 4 cl fastened all 2 elements of order on their uniform. I attach another photo with the same style of fastening but 2-nd class.And foreign awards always were under main bar.You're right abt mini,I can add only that stars on ribbons of Merit medals are gold,silver and bronze colours correspondly.Greets!
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