Iraqi Kingdom Order Garrard Jewlery Co.

[Guest IMHF]

?????????????????????????

[James Hoard]

I am not really sure why anyone should imagine that this object has anything to do with the Rafidain Order. There is nothing to connect the two, either in terms of design, iconography, colours or inscription. The only similarity is that both use a seven pointed star. That seems a pretty tenuous connection.

Given the stones used, it is unlikely to be one that had wide distribution such as a collection of judges or parliamentarians. Instead, it appears to be a one off. Therefore, my own guess is that this decoration is probably part of a mayor's chain of office or a state chartered institution, perhaps the equivalent of something like the British Royal Academy or Royal Society.

James Hoard

[oamotme]

My own view is similar to James's in that it is not an order or award rather some form of civil badge. The style of suspension loop would appear t rule out jewellery which was my first though. James's comment concerning Government badges is, I think, correct. - both Egyptian and Libyian Senator and Deputy badges of office are relatively plain and in silver - both by Bichay - and thus this particluar piece would be out of this particular league. One observation to bear in mind and supporting the Iraqi provenance, as if the case and crown were not enough, is that the blue enamel, which appears to be chipped or missing at the bottom where the two "bands" join and top right, allude, or to my mind anyway, to the two rivers Tigris and Euphrates.

Finally with the exception of the star with stones the other stars look quite ugly and appear to be unsuitable - escpecially the larger one - are you convinced that they belong with this piece?

Owain

[leigh kitchen]

From the photos the enameling has a dusty look to it, the light blue being rippled or dimpled (reminds me of the quality on some east european items) - a deliberate effect if meant to represent rivers?

[Guest IMHF]

I am sorry about the photos: I took these photos of it back in 2005 while I was in Iraq, a year before I bought it from an antique dealer in Baghdad, Iraq. I Will just hold on to it until I go to heaven hoping one day I find the answer. It sits in the medal of my collection in one of my curios....

The stars have the same key hole locking device, that fit into the key hole of the piece:

I want to know is it for the Iraqi Government????? as long as it is for Iraq I don't care....

Thank you for all of your insight:

Lorenzo

Edited August 10, 2008 by IMHF

[Ulsterman]

An amazing medal. :Cat-Scratch:

[Guest IMHF]

An amazing medal.

Yea but is still in ???? to what it is?????

Thank you

Lorenzo

[bmsm]

Yea but is still in ???? to what it is?????

Thank you

Lorenzo

Lorenzo,

I sent my friend in Iraq pictures of your Order to see if he could help you out and here is his reply."This Order offered here about 8 years ago and as I remember the price was too high and the Order went to a private collection. We didn't know what the Order was. In my opinion,this Order made special for someone in the Royal Family and not awarded to others because I have about all the Laws of Orders and Medals in the Kingdom Period and I don't find this Order in them or this Order was a gift to someone in the Royal family from another Kingdom family in Great Britain or another country.

There is also a chance that this Order isn't Iraqi but Jordanian because the Crowns shape is the same of the Iraqi Royal Family one and there isn't any mark that refers that this is Iraqi item".

Sorry your question isn't answered but I tried.

Bob

[Guest IMHF]

Lorenzo,

I sent my friend in Iraq pictures of your Order to see if he could help you out and here is his reply."This Order offered here about 8 years ago and as I remember the price was too high and the Order went to a private collection. We didn't know what the Order was. In my opinion,this Order made special for someone in the Royal Family and not awarded to others because I have about all the Laws of Orders and Medals in the Kingdom Period and I don't find this Order in them or this Order was a gift to someone in the Royal family from another Kingdom family in Great Britain or another country.

There is also a chance that this Order isn't Iraqi but Jordanian because the Crowns shape is the same of the Iraqi Royal Family one and there isn't any mark that refers that this is Iraqi item".

Sorry your question isn't answered but I tried.

Bob

Bob

Thank you for your help, I guess I was the private collector he was talking about??? I think I paid $3,000.00 for a mystery Order???

Thank you for all your help

Lorenzo

[mhohssam]

Bob

Thank you for your help, I guess I was the private collector he was talking about??? I think I paid $3,000.00 for a mystery Order???

Thank you for all your help

Lorenzo

The design on it looks very similar to a coat of arms/emblem on the very first coins produced for the proposed Kingdom of Greater Syria, which was ruled very briefly by Faisal I later of Iraq. The emblem on the coins was a seven pointed star (common motif in the Hashemite monarchies), crowned, and surrounded by a wreath of sorts. This is very similar to it. Perhaps a rare Greater Syrian royal order?

They all used the same style crown, any how

Edited December 1, 2008 by mhohssam

[Guest IMHF]

Bob

Thank you for your help, I guess my friend was the private collector he was talking about??? Which he then sold I I paid $3,000.00 for a mystery Something???

Thank you for all your help

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

The design on it looks very similar to a coat of arms/emblem on the very first coins produced for the proposed Kingdom of Greater Syria, which was ruled very briefly by Faisal I later of Iraq. The emblem on the coins was a seven pointed star (common motif in the Hashemite monarchies), crowned, and surrounded by a wreath of sorts. This is very similar to it. Perhaps a rare Greater Syrian royal order?

They all used the same style crown, any how

Thank you for the information I hope some where in this world there is documentation for this beautiful piece of Arabic History.

Thank you

Lorenzo

Edited December 1, 2008 by IMHF

[nesredep]

Hello!

Amazing medal you show.

All the best

Nesredep

[James Hoard]

The design on it looks very similar to a coat of arms/emblem on the very first coins produced for the proposed Kingdom of Greater Syria, which was ruled very briefly by Faisal I later of Iraq. The emblem on the coins was a seven pointed star (common motif in the Hashemite monarchies), crowned, and surrounded by a wreath of sorts. This is very similar to it. Perhaps a rare Greater Syrian royal order?

They all used the same style crown, any how

Could you perhaps be kind enough to post a picture of the coin that you have in mind?

From the original pictures posted it would seem that this badge came with two stars, which appear to be completely different from one another.

Cheers,

James

[mhohssam]

Could you perhaps be kind enough to post a picture of the coin that you have in mind?

From the original pictures posted it would seem that this badge came with two stars, which appear to be completely different from one another.

Cheers,

James

Hi

I tried searching for it online, but to no avail. It was in the Standard Catalog of World Coins 1901 - 2000, by Krause, in the beginning of the Syria section. It is available at most public libraries. If I get a chance, I'll check it out and scan the page.

Cheers.

Edited December 3, 2008 by mhohssam

[mhohssam]

Hi

I tried searching for it online, but to no avail. It was in the Standard Catalog of World Coins 1901 - 2000, by Krause, in the beginning of the Syria section. It is available at most public libraries. If I get a chance, I'll check it out and scan the page.

Cheers.

FOUND IT! ok not exactly the same coin, but they are designs for coins for the "Kingdom of Syria"

Cheers

[Guest IMHF]

FOUND IT! ok not exactly the same coin, but they are designs for coins for the "Kingdom of Syria"

Cheers

The stars are of the same design of the piece, Faisel did say he was the king of many arab countries at the time of his rule.

Thank you for sharing:

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

THE IRAQIMILITARIA.COM COLLECTION

Our very rare speciman of the Order of the Two Rivers/Wisam al Rafidian Possible set speciman?? Manufactured by: GARRARD & Co. LTD

I still am looking for more information about this piece in my collection:

Thank you

Lorenzo

[Guest IMHF]

Here is a female Civil Version, is this the order you speak of??

J. Jacob {Court Jewelers of the World} reports Garrards used the Albemarle Street address from July 1911 until 1952. He got his info in 1976 while Garrard's staff still took their positions as guardians of company lore and service to individuals as collectors with pride.

To my understanding, royal Arab parliamentry and judicial badges varied between specific functions. Both Libya and Egypt had different ones for their two parliamentry houses and judges' badges (in Egypt) varied between "local" and "extraterritorial" divisions, at least. That could be a reason for varying centers.

Maybe a "personal recognition {moto propritu} award"?

This badge seems quite delicate. While possibilities mentioned above may be correct, how about a ladies award of some sort? An Egyptian precedent exists. On the other hand, one or two cased Rafadhain badges on ladies bows have been offered in the past. One {maybe officer grade?} in a Bacqueville of Paris case with a small gilt metal Iraqi crown on the lid of the red leatherette case.

Owain?

[922F]

Hello Lorenzo,

Yes, this is the style of mounting seen previously for royal Al Rafadhain badges, apparently for ladies if based on British traditional style/method. However, this badge appears to be a commander or grand cross [size compared to ribbon width & gc type swivel attachment to the ribbon bow]. The award in the Bacqueville case, a gilded breast badge, was sewn to the ribbon bow directly via the usual ribbon-ring found on knight and officer badges. It also had a pin-back mounting of the type seen on typical knight or officer badges sewn to the ribbon bow reverse. The other badge known to me was a knight or officer size insignia as well.

Have you had any luck in finding Faisal I order insignia?

[Guest IMHF]

Hello Lorenzo,

Yes, this is the style of mounting seen previously for royal Al Rafadhain badges, apparently for ladies if based on British traditional style/method. However, this badge appears to be a commander or grand cross [size compared to ribbon width & gc type swivel attachment to the ribbon bow]. The award in the Bacqueville case, a gilded breast badge, was sewn to the ribbon bow directly via the usual ribbon-ring found on knight and officer badges. It also had a pin-back mounting of the type seen on typical knight or officer badges sewn to the ribbon bow reverse. The other badge known to me was a knight or officer size insignia as well.

Have you had any luck in finding Faisal I order insignia?

There is a collector/Dealer in Baghdad, Iraq who has 2 sets of the Order one for the Faisal I and the other Faisal II I seen them in 2006, Baghdadi2007 knows about them.

-Wisam al Faisal I Awwal

-Wisam al Faisal II

Lorenzo