Machine Gun Boettcher

[Ralph A]

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[Ralph A]

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[Ralph A]

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[Ralph A]

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[Ralph A]

I'm busy at the moment, but I'll give you a peek at the Militaerpas's innards as soon as possible. Thanks for looking.

[Chip]

Exceptional grouping. Congratulations!

Chip

[dond]

Very nice Ralph. Does the Militaerpas have an entry for the machinegunners badge?

[Ralph A]

Very nice Ralph. Does the Militaerpas have an entry for the machinegunners badge?

First thing I looked for...

No. Not that I can see, nor is there any mention of it in the included post-war papers, nor are any of the photographs dated, of the recipient wearing the badge.

Those facts in themselves... speak for themselves...

[dond]

I'm sure you are aware that the badge appears to be an unmarked Juncker.

[Chris Boonzaier]

First thing I looked for...

No. Not that I can see, nor is there any mention of it in the included post-war papers, nor are any of the photographs dated, of the recipient wearing the badge.

Those facts in themselves... speak for themselves...

Hi,

A different theory... does it have entries that he attended the machine gun school?

Thanks

Chris

P.S. totally. totally killer group !!!!

[bob lembke]

Hi,

A different theory... does it have entries that he attended the machine gun school?

Thanks

Chris

P.S. totally. totally killer group !!!!

Yes, it really should, probably an entry giving taking the course, the dates, etc., plus, ideally, a separate entry, probably a bit toward the front of the book from the other entry, of having been trained on the MG, atr the same place where it probably lists his being trained on the Gewehr 98 and the Pistole 08.

My father's Pass lists his taking a three week "MG course for Pioniere", but the MG training is not listed in the list of weapons trained on as mentioned above. My father's list of weapons trained on lists (if memory serves) the Gewehr 98, the Karbine 98, the Flammenwerfer, and the Pistole 08. The MG course is the only one listed, although he told me of other courses, and I know that he had to have others, such as for the Flammenwerfer.

Bob Lembke

[Ulsterman]

Wow- another great group!!

[Chris Boonzaier]

Yes, it really should, probably an entry giving taking the course, the dates, etc., plus, ideally, a separate entry, probably a bit toward the front of the book

It does not NEED to be. Many guys were in MG units without having gone through the MG schools. Some were MG trained within their regiments. Its a different qualification.

Best

Chris

[nesredep]

Hello!

Very nice find,congratulation.

All the best

Nesredep

[cnock]

This man went to the M.G. Schule

ausgebildet mit MG 08, Pistole 08

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi cnock,

nice, that is what I would expect to find in the book of the guy with the sleeve badge. it is just supposition on my part, but it is a theory I am trying to prove.

Either a MG Schule entry, although there may be exceptions where that is not entered.

I believe the sleeve badge is a qualification badge as opposed to a unit badge.

(i.e. that it is not a MGSSA badge as described in some catalogs)

[cnock]

Hi Chris,

This entry was about a member of a M. G. Scharfschuetzen Abteilung,

i also looked up somebodys Militaerpass who was with a M.G. Kompagnie of I.R. 389 ( for example)

he was transferred to IR 389 as M.G. Schuetze, indicated : versetzt zum ERS. M.G. K von A.K. (21) at Saarbruecken, and ausgebildet am MG 08 und mit Pistole 08. No school indicated

Another one of I.R. 114, ausgebildet Ers M.G.K 20 Armee Korps, mit Gewehr 98, Kar 98, MG 08, MG 08/15, Pistole 08. No school indicated.

M.G Scharfschuetzen underwent training at special schools, they were more highly trained than the regimental M.G. gunners

Regards,

Cnock

[Chris Boonzaier]

M.G Scharfschuetzen underwent training at special schools, they were more highly trained than the regimental M.G. gunners

Regards,

Cnock

Hi,

am not sure about the "elite" school in Rozoy but the main MG school at D?beritz also trained Rigimental MG kompany people.

The AOK schools only became the "official" schools in November 17 even though they had existed before, so the M-Gunners must have gotten their training elsewhere before this..

Then you have the guys who are in the Regt MG company with no official schooling....

The big question is.....

Who could wear the arm badge?

[Chip]

Glenn J. said he would try to find the AKO for the creation of this badge the next time he visits the archives. In the meantime, I think the Probe tag from the example in the Bavarian Army Museum gives a good clue as to whom the original wearers were. The tag says, "Probe des ?rmelabzeichens f?r M.G. Scharfsch?tzentrupps". At the time of the creation of this insignia (in February of 1916) only the M.G.Trupps existed. They were formed into the MGSSA in September of 1916 and continued to be given this insignia. The real questions are how, when and why was the authorization for the wear of this badge extended to other M.G. establishments. The original AOK will not give us the answers.

Chip

[Chris Boonzaier]

Indeed... but there is sooooo much photographic evidence of Regt machine gunners wearing them.... it cannot be that they were all transfered out of the MGSSA.

[Ralph A]

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[Ralph A]

Busy fellow.

[Ralph A]

Training:

[Ralph A]

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[dond]

He saw alot of action.