Pre-1947 Indian Gallantry groups

[Ed_Haynes]

Lieutenant Saheb Rao More, I.D.S.M., 4th Gwalior Imperial Service Infantry

1- IDSM, George V, first variety - "Sahab Rao More, Lieut. in the 4th Gwalior I. S. Infy." - GGO 461/1919, for Egypt, Chhina p. 179.

2- War Medal - "LIEUT. SAHEB RAO MOREY, 4 GLR. INFY"

3- Victory Medal - unnamed (as issued?)

4- Durbar 1911 - unnamed

5- Gwalior Silver Medal - unnamed

While I have much research yet to do, I thought I might post this as an item of interest and add on later.

[Bob Hunter]

Amazing groups, Ed. Those Punjab Frontier clasps really sing to me.

[Ed_Haynes]

Amazing groups, Ed. Those Punjab Frontier clasps really sing to me.

Absolutely, Bob. In an age when people whine loudly and petiition politicians and the press that they think they deserve a medal (or several) just because thay did national service, it is instructive to remember just what hard service these little clasps represented. Yet, these clasps were immensely controversial, as they represented campaign service in an age when clasps were believed to be to represent legitimate battles only.

[peter monahan]

Subadar Mohd. Sher, IDSM, 3/1st Punjab Regiment

The CdG is shown in Qureshi's regimental history, most probably for actions at Kissoue, outside of Damascus, Syria, where he was wounded on 13 June 1941. Five CdGs were awarded to the regiment for this campaign, but only two to Indians.

The Regimental History records him as being wounded at Kissoue, outside Damascus on 13th June 1941. The History also records the Award of the Croix de Guerre (for Syria) and also confirms the M.I.D. (for the same action?).

Lovely group. Ed! Very nice with the Croix de Guerre especially with explanatory citations. I once owned a group to an officer of Indian Cavalry who had a lovely looking Rumanian Order of the Crown on the end but the only info. I had on that was third hand: a fellow collector knew one of the recipient's fellow officers and said that the fellow suggested (somewhat cattily) that it was "a consolation prize" for not getting an MC for some work in Palesyine/Syria in '17-'18.

I do so love the IOM! Simple but strong. Pity you got it forst as a personal logo. Michael Johnson and I adopted it for the Indian Military Collectors Society logo just for the look, many many years ago. BTW, my regards to Ashok Nath when next you write him. He may remember me from the old IMCS days.

[Ed_Haynes]

BTW, my regards to Ashok Nath when next you write him. He may remember me from the old IMCS days.

Actually, I saw Ashok in Delhi just a few days back. He is working at the USI finishing what will be a major work on Indian Army badges. This is just one of the interesting and exciting projects that the new Centre for Armed Forces Historical Research of the USI is supporting; and some really exciting things are on the horizon for them. (Consider the possibility of having Indian Army Lists and regimental histories on CD-ROM or having the surviving medal rolls and long rolls of Indian servicemen since the early 20th century assembled under one archival roof.)

[Ed_Haynes]

Not mine (alas), but the guest of a good friend. He, good friend that he is, is letting me share this with the hungry eyes here.

1974 Lance-Naik Roshan Ali, IDSM, 1/129th Baluchis

Edited January 8, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[peter monahan]

[Ed_Haynes]

Subadar Bakshi Singh, IOM, 47th Sikhs

Much stuff missing, but still nice.

Enlisted 24 Jun 1887

Jemadar 18 April 1905

Subadar 16 September 1913

War Services (January 1919): N-W Frontier of India 1897-98 ? Relief of Malakand, Relief of Chakdara, Operations in Bajour and in the Lamund Country, Uttam Khel ? Medal with 2 clasps [PF, Mala]. (ANYONE HAVE IT OR HIS WWI MEDALS?)

IOM ? H&A, p. 38, for France; Hypher II:241; Duckers p. 86. IAO 356 of 16 April 1915:

?For gallantry and devotion to duty whilst serving with the Indian Army Corps, British Expeditionary Force.?

Duckers adds: ?The regimental history, p. 32, states that the award was for Neuve Chapelle on 28th October 1914. The recipient came from Patiala.? January 1919 IAL shows date of award as 10 March 1915. Named in Punjabi on reverse. Not shown in honours section of 1941 War Services.

Durbar 1911 - Named "Sub Bakhsi Singh 47th Sikhs".

[Ed_Haynes]

Guess I have neglected to put this one up. Hard to categorize in my collection, as he's a "Gora Gorkha":

388463 Major (QGO) Rukman Limbu, MBE, 1/7th Gurkha Rifles

enlisted 4 December 1925, Quetta

Lance/Naik 1932

Naik September 1938

Subadar-Major after 1948

1954 MBE

retired on pension 1955, Major (QGO)

died 30 December 1975

1- The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, 2nd type, member

2- Burma Star - unnamed

3- The War Medal, 1939-45 - unnamed

4- The India Service Medal, 1939-45 - unnamed

5- The General Service Medal, 1918-64, George VI (4th obverse, 1949-52) - MALAYA, MiD leaf - MAJOR. RUKMAN LIMBU. 7 G.R.

6- Elizabeth II Coronation Medal, 1953 - unnamed (he was senior GCO of 7 GR in GR Contingent at London for the coronation)

7- Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal. George VI, 2nd type - REGULAR ARMY - 388463 CAPT. (KGO). RUKUMAN LIMBU. 7 G.R.

8- The Indian Independence Medal, 1947 - 388463 SUB BAM RUKMAN LIMBU. G.R.

The medals are as worn, complete with the most odd "singleton" Burma Star and no 1939-45 Star.

[Ed_Haynes]

Captain Sardar Thakar Singh, MC, Bahadur 47th Sikhs

Not mine (alas), but this has just come to a friend's collection. As received.

MC for Neuve Chapelle. The first Indian MC. And, it seems, issued in duplicate (while he was in hospital in 1915).

Edited March 29, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

His tunic (with some apparent self-augmentation).

[Ed_Haynes]

The man.

[Alex K]

Hi Ed I agree with other comments, fantastic collection

regards

Alex

[Alex K]

BTW any chance these could be original ribbons

Edited April 16, 2007 by Alex K

[Ed_Haynes]

BTW any chance these could be original ribbons

Yes. When you see original WWI-era ribbons, they usually look a lot like this. Most medals come to market naked, tied together with string.

[Alex K]

Would you replace the ribbons or prefer to keep like they are

[Ed_Haynes]

The MC group isn't mine. I would leave them "as is", but I think the custodian has decided differently. It is not a simple matter of "choice", 'tis a matter of ethics: Different people, different ethics.

I have left my mounted-as-worn group to H.H. Jamkhandi well alone!

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2400&st=1

[Ed_Haynes]

While:

1- The medals are naked and unbathed.

2- I feel with almost 100% certainty that the WWII medals (unnamed) are restorations.

This is still a nice group and is, I think, his legitimate full qualification.

IO 8761 Subadar Mehar Chand, M.C., 4/17th Dogra Regiment

1- Military Cross, George VI, dated 1946

2- IGS 1908, NWF 1930-31, "4867 SEP. MEHAR CHAND, 3-17 DOGRA R."

3- IGS 1936, NWF 1937-39, "4867 HAV. MEHAR CHAND, 3-17 DOGRA R."

4- 1939-45 Star unnamed

5- Burma Star unnamed

6- War Medal 1939-45 unnamed

IAL October 1944:

Born 2 Feb.1929

Jemadar 25 January 1940

War-substantative Subadar

Qualified instrustor, driving and maintenance

Indian Army English 2nd class

Qualifiedin smallarms

Instructor in Army signaling

Instructor in Army signaling (special)

Edited July 6, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

MC in London Gazette, 6 June 1946, as "Subadar MEHAR CHAND (8761. IO), 17th Dogra Regiment, Indian Army."

His recommendation:

Edited July 6, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Michael Johnson]

I'm not so sure that he isn't entitled to the GSM "S E Asia 1945-46". The 4/17th were in Vietnam. I have one such medal to the 4/17th, with his medal entitlement and a photo. He isn't entitled to the India Service Medal.

[Ed_Haynes]

I'm not so sure that he isn't entitled to the GSM "S E Asia 1945-46". The 4/17th were in Vietnam. I have one such medal to the 4/17th, with his medal entitlement and a photo. He isn't entitled to the India Service Medal.

Thanks, Michael, will have to check the post-1945 IALs in detail. Should have done that when they were all at hand but

I thought for a bit that he might be with the 3/17th (as there was a MC VCO over there by the same name), but he seems to have gone to the 4/17th on their raising 1 October 1940 (as a raising Jemadar).

Edited July 19, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[coldstream]

I have recently acquired this photograph of a Victoria Cross presentation to, I believe an Indian recepient. The rear of the photograph has an official ink stamp marked 'Services Public Relation Directorate India', and handwritten in black ink, 'The Red Fort Delhi, October 24th 1944, The VC presentation parade'

Im in the process of researching the recipient and identifying his other awards. Hope this is of interest to topic members.

[Ed_Haynes]

I have recently acquired this photograph of a Victoria Cross presentation to, I believe an Indian recepient. The rear of the photograph has an official ink stamp marked 'Services Public Relation Directorate India', and handwritten in black ink, 'The Red Fort Delhi, October 24th 1944, The VC presentation parade'

Im in the process of researching the recipient and identifying his other awards. Hope this is of interest to topic members.

I have seen other photos from this event, but for the life of me can't recall where. It is surely the Red Fort in Delhi.

What information do you seek? The names of the recipients of the VC on that day?

[Ed_Haynes]

OK, found it. This is the VC presentation by Wavell on 24 October 1944 to 2931144 Sepoy Kamal Ram, 8th Punjab Regiment, who had been previously presented with the VC ribbon by George VI near Florence on 26 July 1944.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Ram

and http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/ViewPDF.a...e&all=kamal ram&exact=&atleast=&similar=://http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/Vi...t=&similar=://http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/Vi...t=&similar=

Edited October 13, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[coldstream]

Thanks for that Ed. It came to me in a bunch of mixed photos which im slowly working through. Thought it may be of interest to this topic thread.