Guest Rick Research Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I do not have originals to compare these against, but the differences, even from the two "catalog" books--are STARTLING.Register the characteristics of these on your mind and you won't be fooled at a show. Note also that word must have gone out about the universal fake "ribbon" suspensions made with some sort of red plastic "shower curatin" material-- so these are appearing without any suspensions at all-- another tip off.I cannot tell from the book illustration of an original whether it is one of the rare few that actually used hot enamel, or used the distinctive very THICK "enamel" PAINT most common for the period. This has thin ordinary modern paint of the type used on plastic models. Grotesquely, it has what looks like glued on macaronis instead of the actual leaves-- indicating that we now have a new generation and new source of thes efrauds, NOT made from castings of originals but sculpted entirely new out of thin air. If someone actually gets to handle one of these, please advise on what the strange metal actually is-- another thing distinguishing this from any original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I am BAFFLED as to the point of all of these. There is ZERO collector interest-- and unfortunately there never will be any, since the tidal wave of fakes and fantasy pieces completely overwhelms the token few real Civil and Korean War period PRC awrads that are out here. Again, I do not have an original to compare this with, but obviously from the same source as the above, newly sculpted rather than cast from an original, and completely wrong materials and finish:The collecting well is so thoroughly poisoned by fakes that it is just plain aamzing who is wholesaling these from wherever they come from to where we see them... everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 The point of these is that it is part of the Chinese cottage industry that is producing fakes from Imperial to modern times in huge quantities, they cost vitually nothing to produce and if some sucker will pay $10 on E-bay they have made a good mark up. With Chinese and related material avoid E-Bay like the bubonic plague unless you really know what you are doing.Thats my yuan's worth,PaulI am BAFFLED as to the point of all of these. There is ZERO collector interest-- and unfortunately there never will be any, since the tidal wave of fakes and fantasy pieces completely overwhelms the token few real Civil and Korean War period PRC awrads that are out here. Again, I do not have an original to compare this with, but obviously from the same source as the above, newly sculpted rather than cast from an original, and completely wrong materials and finish:The collecting well is so thoroughly poisoned by fakes that it is just plain aamzing who is wholesaling these from wherever they come from to where we see them... everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Thanks for the warning, Rick, and Paul's advice is absolutely on target. Until we get a good reference book in English written by someone who has the linguistic and historical skills to do it right, Chinese phaleristics will remain a nightmare zone.And a lot of people seem to be getting fleeced by these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimZ Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Had a couple of nasty experiences myself with E-bayer's from China with Russian stuff in that after receiving payment, the medal was not forthcoming! Indeed I reported the sellers and did get a token refund in return. Of course I am not generalising as one cannot do that. But it does seem like a lot of fakes do come out of that part of the world. One of our fellow members who hails from the region has also shown us several medals asking whether they were rare when many a time, these turned out to be fake. Again not the general rule but something which occurs too often for comfort.And the English that comes with it all does not usually help much either!!!! And here I must stress that I speak about Soviet/Russian stuff! Let alone Ed's dream of a reference book for the real Chinese Mc Coy!!Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bifter Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I think these are sold to tourists as a kind of novelty!! A bit like in the U.K. we see copies of V.Cs & D.F.C.s for sale in souvenir shops!!! Back when the iron curtain was drawn, those behind it used to visit each others countries just we in the west did to our allies countries. I am sure they too, wanted souvenirs for their families & friends. I think these are just for those purpose really.They look okay for a bit of fun when you have lots of them in a display case; & are fun if a your smaller family members want to play dress up & war! They will have plenty of medals to wear & it matters not they get lost or damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted January 24, 2008 Share Posted January 24, 2008 I think these are sold to tourists as a kind of novelty!! A bit like in the U.K. we see copies of V.Cs & D.F.C.s for sale in souvenir shops!!! Back when the iron curtain was drawn, those behind it used to visit each others countries just we in the west did to our allies countries. I am sure they too, wanted souvenirs for their families & friends. I think these are just for those purpose really.They look okay for a bit of fun when you have lots of them in a display case; & are fun if a your smaller family members want to play dress up & war! They will have plenty of medals to wear & it matters not they get lost or damaged.The difference is that fake VC's and GC's and the like usually have copy stamped on the reverse. These do not and what is worrying is that these will be being offered in years to come on E bay thus confusing the issue of what is right and what is wrong. Hopefully with China opening more and more up to the west somebody will be able to produce a definitive work on this material with at least an English summary, until this happens we will be at the faker's mercy. Unless a copy is clearly marked as such, even if it is of poor quality, it is potentially going to catch someone out.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Has bought two books under the Chinese awards (yet has not received) .Тhe first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 It is the second. As I see,the image of medals together with reversers. I think, that this book will be useful. About еBay-simple to buy from the checked up sellers. By the way, the real chinese medals in chinese online-auctions cost not cheap. For example, for two medals of the soviet-chinese friendship (one with the document) ask 550 dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I have not seen either one of those 2 books. Fronts and backs will be a GREAT improvement. Where did you find the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Yes!! Nice new books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Yes!! Nice new books.Fot those of us not up to reading Chinese is there a key in English , I would agree most useful books. It would be nice if someone could do the same for Republic and War Lord pieces, I know Barry Weaver is producing a book on the Imperial series.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 (edited) Where can they be obtained, Paul?I have the other two books (with their English keys), so why not add two more books I can't read I know there has been a lot of talk about an Imperial China book, but I haven't gotten the sense there was much substance behind it. Please tell me I'm wrong. Edited January 25, 2008 by Ed_Haynes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 The only advantage to these is we can at least refer to an item number and page to inducate what we are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Books has bought on Chinese eBay. With translation of special problems will not be, as I work with Chinese people. And the colleague from the Russian-speaking forum, living in China, I think will help.As I shall receive books, I shall put scans here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 eBay seller write-"I am a member of OMSA and OMRS".See the medals-http://cgi.ebay.com/CHINA-medal-decoration...1QQcmdZViewItem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Unfortunately, both the OMSA and OMRS have given up on any effort at setting or enforcing any ethical standards or code of conduct. This shameful, and some of us would like to see this change, but that is the way it is, and the current officers of both societies seem quite uninterested in any change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 Ed,it was pleasant to me-the seller writes-"but Chinese and Asian medals are not my specialty", also gives such detailed description of each medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Today has received books. The first a small format, but with very qualitative photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 The second bigger,but a photo quality not good. But its a lot of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Ah. Those appear to be PRICE guides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilja559 Posted February 11, 2008 Share Posted February 11, 2008 Rick,for me the main thing that there is a name of a medal and a photo.Translate the beginnings..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 (edited) I think these are sold to tourists as a kind of novelty!! A bit like in the U.K. we see copies of V.Cs & D.F.C.s for sale in souvenir shops!!! Back when the iron curtain was drawn, those behind it used to visit each others countries just we in the west did to our allies countries. I am sure they too, wanted souvenirs for their families & friends. I think these are just for those purpose really.They look okay for a bit of fun when you have lots of them in a display case; & are fun if a your smaller family members want to play dress up & war! They will have plenty of medals to wear & it matters not they get lost or damaged.These medals may have started off as things for tourists but they have gone beyond that now. Many militaria dealers here in Budapest seem suddenly to have lots of them for sale. The quality is very poor but for the uninitiated they look fairly reasonable in a picture from an auction house. I bought some on spec a few months ago, from an auction house in Germany. Other GMIC members, who have posted to this thread, were quick to identify them as fakes. I asked the auction company not to send them but they came in the mail anyway. Since there was not much money involved I decided to keep them as examples of fakes and will post them here for reference purposes.One final comment as an edit. These are much better and clearer pictures than were available from the auction house where I bought the medals.Regards,Gordon Edited November 2, 2008 by Gordon Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 reverse of the above medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 medal number 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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