Republic of Ireland Irish 1916-20

[Brendan]

Hi Brendan,

Regarding the war pension, I have in my possesion my father's uncle's War Of Independence Medal (with comrac bar) and also his military pension document. He (Anthony Duignan) died in 1942, and unfortunately I know practically nothing of his activities during the war. Do you know if it would be possible for me to view his pensions application, and how I would go about doing so?

Thanks,

Regards - Danny

Hi Danny,

Contact Department of Defence, Pensions Administrations Section, Renmore, Galway. Ask for a copy of your Grandfather's file and wait, it can take six months or more but it will eventually arrive. If you are lucky it will contain a wealth of information, if you are unlucky little or nothing, but it is worth a look. You can also contact the Irish Army Archives Department which is located in Cathal Brugha Barracks, Rathmines, Dublin 6, but from experience I have found their attitude is 'it is their archive and members of the public should not be bothering them by requesting to look at things in it'. Good luck with the search.

[Irish1916]

Gentlemen, does anyone have any thoughts of the officially named and number 1916 medal for sale at the moment and the posthumous numbering system.

Sorry , i should have been more specific, its not on ebay , the auction is at http://www.plymouthauctions.co.uk/

[Ceallach]

To illustrate the observations in my previous post #81. The two officially named & numbered 1916 medals, typical for the series compared to a potential restrike from new dies.

Post #81

The unusual elements I would note are (1) whereas "Seachtmhain na Casca" appears precisely between 9 & 3 o'clock on the other 1916 medal's I own or have observed, in the case of this example the lettering extends substantially beyond both of these reference points; (2) the definition of the flames and to a lesser extent the rays are a remarkable contrast to the sharp detailing on the other 1916 medal's I refer to in (1) above, and (3) the ribbon suspension ring is of the larger type.

The Macken medal, courtesy Paul Murphy & The Partridge medal, to be auctioned in the near future as noted elsewhere on this thread.

An Ceallach

Edited February 8, 2008 by Ceallach

[irishmedals]

I too have seen the 1916 restrike medals and my only guess is that they are perhaps made by the Jewellery and Metal Manufactoring Co from the same sort of dies the 1966 'Survivors' medal was made from??? One thing is for sure the medal shown by irish1916 is an original 1916 awarded to a participant, with the provenance of the original owner and the letter from the Dept of Defence is cast iron.

The 1966 medal doesn't have the same sharpness or definition of the early 1916 medals. Correct me if i am wrong but wasn't there also 2 strikings of the 1966 medal??? one has the correct 'Sword of Light' hallmark but the other a regular Irish Silver hallmark.

Only a guess that the later 1916 medals were a complete restrike made by brand new dies simlair to the dies used in the making of the 1966 medal, plausable given the fact not too much care was taken with the manufactor of Irish medals compared to other countries such as GB and US.

Edited February 8, 2008 by irishmedals

[Irish1916]

Gentlemen, as you know I have a 1966 replacement that was issued at the same time (in 1988) along with this potential latter struck 1916 medal.

I will retrieve this from the bank the week after next and along with other 1966 medals I have & will make some scans so we can look at the potential of different 1966 manufactured batches also.

D?il ?ireann - Volume 242 - 20 November, 1969

Ceisteann?Questions. Oral Answers. - 1916 Commemoration Medals.

Mr. L'Estrange Mr. L'Estrange

Mr. J. Gibbons Mr. J. Gibbons

Mr. J. Gibbons: The number of 1916 jubilee commemorative medals struck was 968, of which 964 were distributed to survivors of the 1916 Rising who were holders of the 1916 medal Every known eligible person has received the commemorative medal.

The above would suggest a maximum of 4 replacements could have been issued before a re-strike was necessary.

D?il ?ireann - Volume 222 - 28 April, 1966

Ceisteanna?Questions. Oral Answers. - Old IRA Service Medals.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan Mr. O.J. Flanagan

51. Mr. O.J. Flanagan asked the Minister for Defence the number of medals that have been issued since 1st January, 1966 to members of the Old IRA with 1916 and other service to their country in 1917-1921.

Mr. Hilliard Mr. Hilliard

Mr. Hilliard: Since the 1st January, 1966, 131 Medals?1916 and 1917-1921 ?have been issued, as well as 901 1916 Survivors' Medals. In addition, 113 replacements and miniatures have been issued during the period.

The above reference may help Saoirse with his question on miniatures.

It seems to say that as in the first 4 months of 1966 a maximum of 113 miniatures (both 1916 & 1917-1921) could have been issued but this would probably be a significantly less as the figure includes replacement full size medals also.

Was it not discussed that the miniatures were voluntarily purchased rather than issued. Any thoughts on this.

[Irish1916]

I had some poor scans of the 1966 medal backs on my web site already which can be examined:

They do not seem to have the noticeable difference seen on the 1916 versions, with the exception of the Gold stamps.I am away next week but on my return I will get better scans when I retrieve the medals.

[Ceallach]

Gentlemen, does anyone have any thoughts of the officially named and number 1916 medal for sale at the moment and the posthumous numbering system.

[

Sold for 12,000.00 sterling + 17.5% auction fee = 14,100.00. Who said the market had peaked !!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/norther...and/7248550.stm

Regards - An Ceallach

[Irish1916]

The auction house said that it had been bought by a collector in Ireland.

Not me. (this time)

[Paul L Murphy]

I got outbid on this one as well. Mind you, I was bottom feeding a bit with the size of my bid.

[irishmedals]

Not me either, went out of my budget - and what a price it achieved!

Anyone knew who bought it?

[molders]

Not me either, didn't even bid on this one. I'm holding off buying anything at the moment till I see whats in Adams.

[SneakerBrooklyn]

Grreetings Gentlemen. Not me either.

[paddywhack]

just saw this thread and to be honest after seeing so many fantastic groups from many a different country split up on ebay and our goverments(or any goverments in general) lack of intrest in keep irish history in ireland it really really does not surprize me at all! but as for the prices i cant see them going down anytime soon! in order to get my emergancy medal i own i had to buy it from america as the prices here are so mad!

[Irish1916]

Gentlemen, can you help with any knowledge on this "tie" pin issued in 1966. It is suggested that it was only issued to Boland's mill medal recipients. The photograph of the pin on a medal is from an Adams auction included in a Boland's mill medal set. Has anyone any published material on it or any proof that it only went to one Garrison. Thanks

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Irish 1916

when you say issued, can you clarify by who?

I think if it was for such an auspicious occasion,

it might have more features connecting it to the event.

Is there any proof that it is other than a Celtic Design influenced tie pin??

Kevin in Deva.

[Irish1916]

Is there any proof that it is other than a Celtic Design influenced tie pin??

Kevin, the pin has the 1966 hallmark (which is the same symbol as the pin) on the back. According to the grandson of the man who received it ,it was "issued" in 1966 possibly along with his survivor's medal and was only given to Boland's Garrison. The only other one I could find (see previous post)was attached to a 1966 medal from another Boland's mill garrison participant. I have no proof at all that this is in fact correct. It could be 2 plus 2 equalling 5.

[Guest Rick Research]

You guys DO realize that it is possible/logical to strat NEW threads on unrelated topics rather than one enormous thread which takes so long to download that I can go away and shave and come back to type this and it still hasn't finished downloading all the pages?

[Ceallach]

You guys DO realize that it is possible/logical to strat NEW threads on unrelated topics rather than one enormous thread which takes so long to download that I can go away and shave and come back to type this and it still hasn't finished downloading all the pages?

Hi Rick,

Could we have our own wee forum, maybe. Kev in Deva, thought it would be a good idea in the past. That way the different topics on Irish militaria could be kept together, and perhaps increase better topic selection for posts. Having to trawl through the bigger sea invites expediency. Just a suggestion.

Regards - An Ceallach

[Ceallach]

Kevin, the pin has the 1966 hallmark (which is the same symbol as the pin) on the back. According to the grandson of the man who received it ,it was "issued" in 1966 possibly along with his survivor's medal and was only given to Boland's Garrison. The only other one I could find (see previous post)was attached to a 1966 medal from another Boland's mill garrison participant. I have no proof at all that this is in fact correct. It could be 2 plus 2 equalling 5.

Hi,

I believe it to be the case that the tie-pin was presented to surviving members of the Bolands Mill Garrison in 1966, and that it is the memento referred to in the following extract from an invitation letter, in my collection, to survivors issued by Bolands Limited -:

To this end, the Directors have the honour to invite you to the unveiling by His Excellency, President de Valera, on the afternoon of April 15th, of a Memorial Plaque which is being placed on the wall of the Bakery by the Company. The Directors have also decided that in order to mark the occasion in a fitting way, a small presentation should be made to the President, and in addition, that a memento be given to each surviving member of the original Garrison.

These silver tie-pins have the "Sword of Light " hallmark (1966). A fitting gesture for the surviving participants.

I believe that the auction lot you reference is Whytes, April 2006, for the Fullum Group.

Regards - An Ceallach

Edited February 27, 2008 by Ceallach

[irishmedals]

Hi Rick,

I would echo the comments of An Ceallach - can we have our own forum??? There is massive interest in Irish militaria and it would be great to have a dedicated forum.

Please......

[Irish1916]

You guys DO realize that it is possible/logical to strat NEW threads

Rick, I deliberately chose to use this long thread to request information on this subject as I knew that some of the most knowledgeable collectors in this field had written on it and were hopefully receiving email notification of new posts.

Had I posted in the "Northern European & Baltic States: Non Communist Era For all Militaria, Orders, Medals & Decorations relating to the follwoing European (Non Communist) States: Dennmark, Estonia, Finland, Iceland, Republic of Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Netherlands, Norway & Sweden."

forum ,where I should have, I may not have received the quick and excellent response from An Ceallach.

May I reiterate the request for our own forum please. Paul

[PKeating]

I'd like to add my support for such a forum.

PK

[Paul L Murphy]

I'd like to add my support for such a forum.

PK

Me too

[Kev in Deva]

Throw my name onto the list as well!

Kevin in Deva

[Ulsterman]

Egad-it's 1922 all over again. partition, independence.....

So long as Northern Irish medals remain in the UK forum section, I'll vote aye too.