Hungary M-63 Lt Col Infantry Parade tunic

[Gordon Craig]

#2

[bazsi]

Gordon,

What a beautiful ribbon bars!!! The reason is why I think that it is the DDR medal, that it is a painted plastic ribbon bar. We can see some painted items with different sizes. The sizes on the silk version is always the same as the original DDR. And the DDR medals are more frequent. But it can be also cuban of course. It is just a little brainstorming.

Which medal is it if it is cuban?

Regards,

Bazsi

[Sandor Molnar]

Charles, Gordon and Bal?zs,

According to my experiences there are two traditions in military nomenclature. According to the "conservative" tradition you are not allowed to "invent" new denominations, you have to use the official (army) versions. The disadvantage in this case is that your denominations are not precise enough. The other tradition is the "innovative", when you are not feared to invent new denominations. The problem with this is that two collectors often speak a different language. The other problem is that it is not always obvious whether a uniform should get a new denomination/double denomination/triple denomination, as it depends on the "resolution" of your nomenclature. Let's take the 1957M dress tunics, there are at least 6-7 models/variants/subvariants. "Waistcut" or not, embroidered or metal branch badge, 49M or 57M button, white or brown inner lining etc... All could receive an own denomination, it's only a question of the "resolution".

Charles,

I would gladly see some close-up pics of the ex-piping. And if possible, also of the shoulder boards. To be honest I don't like them, on that type of a tunic I would expect early 1965M ones...

Gordon,

Please go to http://www.reintex.hu, click Term?kle?r?sok on the left menu bar, scroll to Felvarr?k, kitűzők. You wil see they have a huge inventory...

Bal?zs,

The denomination 1957/1965M would suggest in my opinion that it is an official variant. For that reason I would suggest the term 1965 modified 1957M...

Regards, Sandor

[bazsi]

Let's take the 1957M dress tunics, there are at least 6-7 models/variants/subvariants. "Waistcut" or not, embroidered or metal branch badge, 49M or 57M button, white or brown inner lining etc... All could receive an own denomination, it's only a question of the "resolution".

I think the best way is the "conservative" way. The order and medal collectors uses the model/variant/subvariant nomenclature. In my opinion we have to use the same system. We cannot invent new denominations for every modification, for evry subvariant. If we use our own denomination, we will speak in different languages.

I like Sanyi's solution, the M1965, modified 1957.

Regards,

Bazsi

[Gordon Craig]

Gordon,

What a beautiful ribbon bars!!! The reason is why I think that it is the DDR medal, that it is a painted plastic ribbon bar. We can see some painted items with different sizes. The sizes on the silk version is always the same as the original DDR. And the DDR medals are more frequent. But it can be also cuban of course. It is just a little brainstorming.

Which medal is it if it is cuban?

Regards,

Bazsi

Bazsi,

We are way off topic here and I am primarily to blame for that. I'll respond to your request via PM.

Regards,

Gordon

[bazsi]

Gordon,

Alright! But it was my last "off topic"-like question:).

Regards,

Bazsi

[hunyadi]

Though we have seem to become "off topic" there is a wealth of information here - I would not change anything. But without further ado... here are the images of the tunic in details. First off is the collar. You can see where the tailor has left a small remnant of the green piping. You can also see where the collar was folded over slightly and resewn.

[hunyadi]

Here is a shot of the interior - you can see that it is a white sleeve tunic. If you also look hard enough you can see the sewing for the shoulder boards. This tunic came from the flea market near Nepstadion (forgot the name = I called it the Thieves Market) this set probably came from a fresh "trash day" pick up - or more likely the pestering of a recent widow. For our Hungarian forum members who have had the pleasure of venturing down there you know that there are a few militaria dealers - but there are also a hoard of junk collectors who will sell anything and everything - this tunic along with the medal bars and several other tunics of the same Lt. Col were on the same table of one such seller. It was among dishes, dusty casette tapes and the like... it was not the type of seller who knew much or had the gumption to put something together like this, so I feel fairly confident that its a complete group. I believe the reason that there are the newer shoulder boards on this older tunic is probably the result of a promotion. He probably had this tunic and as it was set up for the medal bar used it only for parade purposes, so it probably spent most of its life in the closet. The other tunics I bought had the holes just above the upper pocket and he clearly wore the other ones with the ribbon bars (too bad they were not on the table on that day) during normal military functions. All of the tunics had the same shoulder boards so he probably had them all tailored to match. Just my take on the tunic. Welcome your responses.

[Sandor Molnar]

Charles,

The name of the flea market is Verseny utca (Verseny street) market, and indeed they don't sell there faked or altered uniforms, or at least I've never found any.

Regarding your tunic it could of course have happened that the guy had the tunic already for a while, when he put on the new shoulder boards. Why to throw out a good tunic if it still can be used...

As to the dates, my guess is that the new pattern 1965M shoulder boards were introduced around 1969-1971, most probably along with the new pattern pants in 1970.

Anyhow, I don't think that we will have a 100% judgement on this issue, according to my experiences the best is in such a case the gut feeling. You have the tunic, you bought the tunic, if you have the feeling that it's ok, then I will gladly beleive it.

Regards, Sandor

[hunyadi]

Sandor - thanks for your input - the other tunics that were on the table were newer. As I stated before, I think he went out and got new uniforms, but already had this M57 in the closet and used it for parades only it seems. The issuance of the newer borads in 1970 - would make sense - esp as this had the 1970 parade badge - if you were going to be in the parade - one would need to "look" similar to the other ones in the parade. This information helps - thanks!