Soviet Is it a Real Group...?

[hipnos]

It?s possible that this group could be a Correct one??.

Thanks and sorry for the pics...there are the only possibles in this moment

Serial Numbers.

MEDAL FOR COMBAT SERVICE type 2 variation 2 #1415790

ORDER OF THE RED STAR type 2 #2638124

ORDER OF THE RED BANNER type 3 variation 4 #364306

ORDER OF LENIN type 6 variation 1 #320105

Edited February 28, 2008 by hipnos

[Eric B]

Without seeing better pics of the order book there's no way to judge.

The sniper story is probably just that, a story. These awards were all given as long service awards; it's quite a coincidence that the "sniper" just happened to get all (and only) the awards one would get for simply being in the military for a couple of decades.

[hipnos]

Without seeing better pics of the order book there's no way to judge.

The sniper story is probably just that, a story. These awards were all given as long service awards; it's quite a coincidence that the "sniper" just happened to get all (and only) the awards one would get for simply being in the military for a couple of decades.

I Agreed. The seller ask 2000 USD, What do you think??

Thanks

Miguel

[Eric B]

Already having a long service set with order book I?m not in the market. Looking forward to finally getting it researched? some day. But don?t think there?ll be any thrilling war stories to it. It?ll probably be as close to mirroring my career as any research gets: ?This comrade was a steady and stoic tender of his desk, always pushing paper in the proper direction, his trips to the WC always followed by a prompt return, and he was always the first to keep the ash trays emptied and cleaned.

But again, without being able to closely examine the order book it?s impossible to tell if this is really a group. At any rate I personally don?t spend that much money sight unseen without knowing the seller at least by long term reputation.

[hipnos]

Already having a long service set with order book I?m not in the market. Looking forward to finally getting it researched? some day. But don?t think there?ll be any thrilling war stories to it. It?ll probably be as close to mirroring my career as any research gets: ?This comrade was a steady and stoic tender of his desk, always pushing paper in the proper direction, his trips to the WC always followed by a prompt return, and he was always the first to keep the ash trays emptied and cleaned.

But again, without being able to closely examine the order book it?s impossible to tell if this is really a group. At any rate I personally don?t spend that much money sight unseen without knowing the seller at least by long term reputation.

Thanks eric, really a lot of money I would prefer expend buying a good german group

regards

miguel

[Ferdinand]

If the booklet is not messed with, 2000 USD is a really fair price for this group. The sniper story could easily have been made up; there's no way to tell if it's true from these items. Not every female awardee was necessarily a sniper.

[JimZ]

IF THE BOOKLET IS NOT MESSED UP......

Not sure about the group story and I would not hold my breath! Some scary fake booklets out there!

BUT...

...if they are genuine ODMs $2,000 seems to be fair money in today's market for them collectively assuming they are not a group....

BUT...

If you are buying then you'd better ask for scans better than that!!!! Otherwise you may be paying $2,000 for something not worth a buck.

If so thread with caution.... great caution! Ask for pics... the larger and more detailed the better. Study them. Refer them to others if in doubt. And if you take the plunge based on scans like that ask for the money back guarantee....although I'd seriously doubt whether you'd get it or not!

Jim

[Ed_Haynes]

Jim says it very well. If all is kosher, this is a good group (and forget the "sniper" BS). But without quality images of everything (obverse, reverse, all relevent pages of the book), avoid it. If they seller cannot or will not provide such images, be afraid, be very afraid.

I hope it turns out to be good, for it could be interesting to research.

[Christian Zulus]

Gentlemen,

what makes me worry, is the extreme bargain price of that group: USD 2000,- (not EUROs !) is far less, than you might get for selling the items seperated .

O.K., maybe the seller doesn't know the price tags in Moscow or St. Petersburg ...

Anyhow, it can't be an authentic "sniper-group", because we all know, which awards Red Army Snipers got, due to the regulations . Maybe the person, who got these long service awards, fullfilled his duties during the GPW in a sniper-unit, but had never the chance to kill enemy soldiers at the front line - who knows ...

Best regards

Christian

BTW: Please, have a look at the current price tags of a Lenin, RB or RS .

[hipnos]

quote name='Christian Zulus' date='Feb 28 2008, 22:12 ' post='244421']

Gentlemen,

what makes me worry, is the extreme bargain price of that group: USD 2000,- (not EUROs !) is far less, than you might get for selling the items seperated .

O.K., maybe the seller doesn't know the price tags in Moscow or St. Petersburg ...

Anyhow, it can't be an authentic "sniper-group", because we all know, which awards Red Army Snipers got, due to the regulations . Maybe the person, who got these long service awards, fullfilled his duties during the GPW in a sniper-unit, but had never the chance to kill enemy soldiers at the front line - who knows ...

Best regards

Christian

BTW: Please, have a look at the current price tags of a Lenin, RB or RS .

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, the Glory can certainly be researched, if

1- you are willing to pay for it and

2- it ever comes in (no luck, no charge) - reasearch has gotten VERY sporadic these day (I hope this means nothing in cosmic terms?).

[hipnos]

Yes, the Glory can certainly be researched, if

1- you are willing to pay for it and

2- it ever comes in (no luck, no charge) - reasearch has gotten VERY sporadic these day (I hope this means nothing in cosmic terms?).

Where I can find the researchers - by - pay (links. please).

I?ve no idea on this research matter, except in the (excellent) British WGC.

Thanks for you kind answer

Miguel

Edited February 29, 2008 by hipnos

[Ed_Haynes]

PM sent as we normally don't name him in public - who knows who is watching.

Depending on the government's mood at any moment, such research may or may not be OK.

Edited February 29, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[hipnos]

PM sent as we normally don't name him in public - who knows who is watching.

Depending on the government's mood at any moment, such research may or may not be OK.

Ok, Thanks I got it...

Miguel

[Lapa]

quote name='Christian Zulus' date='Feb 28 2008, 22:12 ' post='244421']

Gentlemen,

what makes me worry, is the extreme bargain price of that group: USD 2000,- (not EUROs !) is far less, than you might get for selling the items seperated .

O.K., maybe the seller doesn't know the price tags in Moscow or St. Petersburg ...

Anyhow, it can't be an authentic "sniper-group", because we all know, which awards Red Army Snipers got, due to the regulations . Maybe the person, who got these long service awards, fullfilled his duties during the GPW in a sniper-unit, but had never the chance to kill enemy soldiers at the front line - who knows ...

Best regards

Christian

BTW: Please, have a look at the current price tags of a Lenin, RB or RS .

Thanks lads, is a very important hint on the matter...So...I?ll ask for more scans if this is possible...

By the way: Do you think is possible to find the owner of a Glory order (I bought a 2nd class in Budapest 2 years ago) only with the Serial Number???

This is : Nr.: 20700, as you can see there are a "scare" trought the star diagonally...?

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2008/post-4281-1204240921.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_02_2008/post-4281-1204240933.jpg

Hipnos,

Can you please post hi-resolution scans (at least 600dpi) of the round medallion on the front and of the SN area, I have some nagging doubts about the catual class of this order.

Marc

[matteti]

Hipnos,

Can you please post hi-resolution scans (at least 600dpi) of the round medallion on the front and of the SN area, I have some nagging doubts about the catual class of this order.

Marc

Personally, I also have very serious doubts and I think that this order might in fact be a 3rd class with serial 20700X where the last digit was buffed out and gold plating was applied on the medallion.

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Hipnos,

it seems, that there is gold plating INSIDE the scare across the medaillon, which means, that the gold wash had been applied AFTER the scare happened to the veteran.

But who knows, maybe the gold wash had been applied a second time by the veteran himself or a juweller, what can be seen at some authentic Glory 2cl ?

The s/n. on the revers looks - as far as I can see on the scan - o.k. At least, it might be a very low numbered Glory 3cl - full cavalier Sgt. Gnitienko http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5536 had been awarded a Glory 3cl s/n. 35207 in april 1944 - and research + great citation might bring back the invested money to you , if you can put away the gold wash ...

Best regards

Christian

[hipnos]

Dear Hipnos,

it seems, that there is gold plating INSIDE the scare across the medaillon, which means, that the gold wash had been applied AFTER the scare happened to the veteran.

But who knows, maybe the gold wash had been applied a second time by the veteran himself or a juweller, what can be seen at some authentic Glory 2cl ?

The s/n. on the revers looks - as far as I can see on the scan - o.k. At least, it might be a very low numbered Glory 3cl - full cavalier Sgt. Gnitienko http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=5536 had been awarded a Glory 3cl s/n. 35207 in april 1944 - and research + great citation might bring back the invested money to you , if you can put away the gold wash ...

Best regards

Christian

I?d send you a More detailed pic at 1200 ppp (epson perfection 3490), and a clse up- It looks like if the deep of the scare is free on gold wash...but I would your autorizated opinion

Thanks

Miguel (hipnos)

PS/ By the way I think I?ve pay for it 3 years ago at Budapest 150 USD

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Miguel,

many thanks for providing high-res scans .

You are right: There are no traces of gold wash inside the scare .

Your Glory 2cl seems to me genuine, authentic and problem free.

Please get your Glory researched, because the 2nd class is rather rare - less than 47.000 had been awarded - and the citiations for a Glory 2cl are usually great.

The Order of Glory 2nd class with s/n. 20700 might have also been the veterans most superior award, because that s/n. is not listed in the directory of the Full Cavaliers of the Order of Glory at MIR NAGRAD http://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform.c...va&ppage=91 .

Best regards

Christian

[hipnos]

Dear Miguel,

many thanks for providing high-res scans .

You are right: There are no traces of gold wash inside the scare .

Your Glory 2cl seems to me genuine, authentic and problem free.

Please get your Glory researched, because the 2nd class is rather rare - less than 47.000 had been awarded - and the citiations for a Glory 2cl are usually great.

The Order of Glory 2nd class with s/n. 20700 might have also been the veterans most superior award, because that s/n. is not listed in the directory of the Full Cavaliers of the Order of Glory at MIR NAGRAD http://www.mirnagrad.ru/cgi-bin/exinform.c...va&ppage=91 .

Best regards

Christian

Thanks Christian. Really I dont know where i can find any information on the star...I don?t know where I must direct me to try to get some informatio...USSR/russian sources are unknow for me.

If you can send me some "first steps", I?ll fell much obliged

Thanks again

Miguel

[Ferdinand]

Miguel, you should take a look at http://mondvor.narod.ru - they have an excellent page about the Order of Glory 2nd Class:

- http://mondvor.narod.ru/OSlava2.htm

Even if you don't speak Russian, the site can be understandable if you translate the texts of it with http://babelfish.altavista.com.

Auke

[hipnos]

Miguel, you should take a look at http://mondvor.narod.ru - they have an excellent page about the Order of Glory 2nd Class:

- http://mondvor.narod.ru/OSlava2.htm

Even if you don't speak Russian, the site can be understandable if you translate the texts of it with http://babelfish.altavista.com.

Auke

Thanks, It?s really a good link and more with the translation program!!

regards

miguel

[matteti]

I might be wrong, and that's why I would appreciate other members opinions (including Lapa), but to me, it seems there was a number "6" at the right of current serial number. First photo is the one that was posted here, second is the same photo in negative colors.

Does it look like a 6 or I am being paranoid?

[Ed_Haynes]

I might be wrong, and that's why I would appreciate other members opinions (including Lapa), but to me, it seems there was a number "6" at the right of current serial number. First photo is the one that was posted here, second is the same photo in negative colors.

Does it look like a 6 or I am being paranoid?

Good eyes. To me, that does look . . . well . . . troublesome (or worse).

[Lapa]

Thanks, It?s really a good link and more with the translation program!!

regards

miguel

Miguel,

Your OGLII does not look bad, but I am uncomfortable with the dark trace at the right of the serial number. Could you make several hi-res scans of that specific area, turning the order 90 degrees each time. Also, a close-up of the central part of the tower (from above the clock to the top of the gate) would help.

Marc