hunyadi Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 OK - have seen nearly all the examples known to exist at the musuem. Never seen one in a collection (yet) and have never seen one for sale... Till today...Institurted in April of 1949 this is the Politcal Offciers Badge 60mm in diameter. Was intended to be worn by all those authorised who beloinged to the Political Officer Corps which had been established previously but known more as the 'Political Training Corps'. By 1949 these officers held joint command with every unit - generally at company to regiment level. Like the Soviet model, these officers could over-ride the orders of teh commanding offcier at any time for any reason. They were only answerable to thier superiors. The badge was phased out by the end of 1953 after Stalins death and as a measure to 'de-stalinize' the military.Similarly the Political Leaders Badge was 50mm in diameter and was placed in company level on down to 'monitor' the troops. He did not hold absolute power, and acted more as an informant and political advisor. They were not given the right to make any political speeches, unless authorised by the supervising Political Officer. So - now I have in my grubly little hands a 60mm Political Offciers Badgeit makes a nice compliment to thesehttp://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=24030 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewchaneyau Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Far, far away, in the land 'Down Under' sits a collector equally impressed and at the same time...very JEALOUS.......What a nice find. Thanks for posting Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Yummy, nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 (edited) I can add my "Political Leaders Armbadge". Charles and I bought theses badges at the same time. There is one dealer here who seems to have a stock of early and rare badges that he presents to Charles and I from time-to-time. Someitmes he comes up with a group of badges, and refuses to break them up, (which of course is his prerogitive) but as a group they are prohibitvely expensive. Yesterday, at the monthly Militaria Show, he pulled out one of each of these badges. That left Charles and I with the quandry of who would buy which one. Charles eventually was able to decide on the Political Officers badge while I took the Political Leaders badge. While our reference book lists the Political Leaders Armbadge as being 47mm by 47mm that is somewhat misleading. The Political Leaders badges is 5 sided and each side measures 35mm so no matter which way you turn it it always looks the same. There is no right or wrong way to sew it on the arm as long as the bottom is parallel with the ground. The red material feels like felt and the gold is a metallic thread. The back is then covered with paper. The Political Leaders Armbadge differs in that it has a silver metal star in the centre instead of an embroidered gold one. It also looks as though the cloth part of the badge was finished, and the papaer backing applied, before the metal star was put on as there is a small piece of backing paper stuck over where the star came through the cloth.Regards,Gordon Edited March 2, 2008 by Gordon Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 The back of the badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 What we need to complete these badges, other than one more each, is a collar tab with the special Ploitical Officer/Political Leader device on it. The collar tabs were supposed to have a similar device on them that was 10mm in diameter. The collar tab device was devoid of the smaller central star. Since the Political Officer/Political Leaders were assigned to various posts throught the military they would have worn the collar tab of their arm of service.This raises an interest point. There were a lot of different collar tab service devices in use at the same time as the Political Officer/Leaders collar tab insignia was worn. I doubt if there was room to wear both so I suspect the Political Officer/Leaders device would have been worn instead of the arm of service device. Since I have never seen one of these collar tabs/devices, nor a picture of one, this is conjecture on my part.Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted March 2, 2008 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 Hi Gordon - gotta get that book I made out of your hands! It was done so quick and dirty... so get out the marker and cross that part out. After fully translating that section of the regulations - those collar tabs with the polit off badge on them were for the instructors at the Petofi Accademy only. (sorry at this point the book is good for the pictures ) As stipulated in 1949 and again in 1950 (when new collar tab devices were introduced) the political officers and leadrs were to wear the same collar tabs and shoulder borads as the unit they were serving in. The arm patch was the only method of identfying them.Measurements were taken off the regulations - my badge is about 58-59mm - may have shrunk over time a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lapa Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Hi Gordon - gotta get that book I made out of your hands! It was done so quick and dirty... so get out the marker and cross that part out. After fully translating that section of the regulations - those collar tabs with the polit off badge on them were for the instructors at the Petofi Accademy only. (sorry at this point the book is good for the pictures ) As stipulated in 1949 and again in 1950 (when new collar tab devices were introduced) the political officers and leadrs were to wear the same collar tabs and shoulder borads as the unit they were serving in. The arm patch was the only method of identfying them.Measurements were taken off the regulations - my badge is about 58-59mm - may have shrunk over time a bit.Hunyadi,Could you please post a scan of the back of your badge, for information.Thanks,Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Charles,Ok I'll quit quoting your book! The picture in the Osprey book on the 56 Revolution shows a Political Officer wearing his arm of service devices on the collar tabs and shoulder boards. Pretty good these guys!Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted March 2, 2008 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 (edited) Here is the drawing of the collar tab as per the 1951 regulations. When I translated it beofre - I was confused that those in the Political Offciers Training program at the Petofi Accademy who had the 'star' badge did not wear the school triangle or a special 'collar tab' (see where my quick and dirty translating went bad) they only wore the standard collar tab and in place of the school arm badge (only if they were attending the Kossuth Academy!) - the Polit Offcier Badge was mounted on the left arm 15 cm down from the shoulder seam.In 1951 this collar tab was designed for use by the Petofi School (which was 'the' political offcier / leaders school at the time). At this point I cant find a regulation of when it was canceled - though all the Petofi Photos that I have - no one is wearing one of these collar tabs...As I recall the Osprey description seemed to indicate that it was 'possible' in 1956 for a political offcier to wear the M49 uniform with the Polit Officer badge - though by that time the badge had been phased out and so had the M49 uniform which was forbidden to be worn after 1952. I would be interested in seeing the actual photo they used to illustrate that plate. Edited March 3, 2008 by hunyadi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Charles,Thanks for posting the picture of the collar tab from the Honved Journals. I don't remember seeing that before. I guess I'll have to go back to the library and see what else I missed! Lets keep at this as I need a little more clarification as to who wore what at the Petofi Academy. From what you said:1- instructors at the academy were supposed to have worn a collar tab with the political officers symbol on it, for a particular (short) period of time, but we have no photographic evidence of this in practice;2- the men in training at Petofi as political cadre wore the Political Officers/Leaders badge on the left arm while at the school. They would do this before they graduated?3-in a previous thread we discussed the badge worn on the right breast pocket of the students and staff of Petofi (I'll include the photo of that from the other thread). Would they have worn both the arm badge and the breast badge at the same time? (possibly different time spans for the wear of each separately or together?)Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 (edited) Obscurity is the best description for these times....1) yes - but there is not photographic evidence that I have yet to uncover except for the plate from osprey2) as regulations go - they are covering all the bases. The regulations simply state that if the person is a student at Kossuth, but already has the polit leaders or offciers badge - they do not wear the Kossuth Academy arm triangle. So simply - if someone had qualified for being a polit leader / offcier and already had the badge and then went back to scool they did not wear the arm triangle - I could see this happening with a Polit Leader / Offcier who then goes back to the school for a higher degree (because they were churning out officers - peasants - in 2 years!). I need to edit the triangle bit - I said Petofi when I meant Kossuth!!!!3) according to the Xerox book we got - this badge is the similar to wearing the Kossuth Academy triangle. So its a school badge for the political offciers only... there was two of these typsed of badges - the one with the PPsH and 'Petofi Akademia' on it. This type was used from Jan 1949 to sometime in 1950. Then in 1950 - September 1956 this round badge was implimented. Edited March 3, 2008 by hunyadi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 1949 - 1950 badge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 Then the 1950 to Spet 1956 badge - interestingly the Xerox book says these are 'extremely rare'. But according to them every student got one?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 Charles,Thanks for clearing that up for me. I knew there was two badges but wasn't sure of the time frame for wearing.There is a round badge, very similar to the last style Petofi badge, except that it does not have the writing on it that the school badge does. Are these badges related to Petofi in any way?Had a good day, well my wallet didn't, at Tatra today. I was downtown with Dorothy and wasn't going to go into Tatra but she convinced me that I should. (That probably had something to do with the gold earrings I had bought her!) A wise woman my wife. I'll post the results later after I reload my photo program which died last night!Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 (edited) OK - have seen nearly all the examples known to exist at the musuem. Never seen one in a collection (yet) and have never seen one for sale... Till today...Institurted in April of 1949 this is the Politcal Offciers Badge 60mm in diameter. Was intended to be worn by all those authorised who beloinged to the Political Officer Corps which had been established previously but known more as the 'Political Training Corps'. By 1949 these officers held joint command with every unit - generally at company to regiment level. Like the Soviet model, these officers could over-ride the orders of teh commanding offcier at any time for any reason. They were only answerable to thier superiors. The badge was phased out by the end of 1953 after Stalins death and as a measure to 'de-stalinize' the military.Similarly the Political Leaders Badge was 50mm in diameter and was placed in company level on down to 'monitor' the troops. He did not hold absolute power, and acted more as an informant and political advisor. They were not given the right to make any political speeches, unless authorised by the supervising Political Officer. So - now I have in my grubly little hands a 60mm Political Offciers Badgeit makes a nice compliment to thesehttp://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=24030Gents,I am afraid I have to report that this badge is now being faked here in Hungary. The upside is that it very poorly done. If you are ever offered a Political Officers arm badge like the ones in this thread, post number in particular as this is the repro badges that I saw, please refer to these pictures before buying. There is really no similarity between the fake now on the market and the high quality of the originals posted here.Regards,Gordon Edited December 20, 2008 by Gordon Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 Great...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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