hipnos Posted May 4, 2008 Posted May 4, 2008 I bought some months ago this set. The man seems a Zouave and the medals Medaille militaire and Croix de guerre (1914-18), dated the set in the WWI, not any inscriptipn on the photo rear except "carte postale"... but where are the zouve regiments, and what are their numbers??, Any help will be wellcomed!!Thanks a lot Miguel
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 4, 2008 Posted May 4, 2008 Without knowing who it is, I would say this is a typical KIA group. The MM, CdG... and none of the post war commemo's.BestChris
Taz Posted May 4, 2008 Posted May 4, 2008 I bought some months ago this set. The man seems a Zouave and the medals Medaille militaire and Croix de guerre (1914-18), dated the set in the WWI, not any inscriptipn on the photo rear except "carte postale"... but where are the zouve regiments, and what are their numbers??, Any help will be wellcomed!!Thanks a lot MiguelThere were four French Zouave Regiments at the outbreak of WWI, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Zouaves. If that helps at all.Regards Eddie
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 4, 2008 Posted May 4, 2008 Hi,it is complicated by the fact that "Mixte" regiments were formed with Zouave battalions.BestChris
Djedj Posted May 5, 2008 Posted May 5, 2008 Bonsoir Miguel,Difficult to tell the regiments from that view : the regiments are indeed distinguished by the colour of the false pocket design within the braiding of their spencer :1st: Red2nd: White3rd: Yellow4th: Dark BlueSee some examples down this page :http://www.military-photos.com/zouave2.htmActually with old orthochromatic photo processes, the only one that can really be told is the White of the 2nd Zouaves (Red, Yellow and Dark blue turning out amazingly alike).I do share Chris's learnt opinion - looks like a KIA set.Suerte !Jerome
hipnos Posted May 5, 2008 Author Posted May 5, 2008 Bonsoir Miguel,Difficult to tell the regiments from that view : the regiments are indeed distinguished by the colour of the false pocket design within the braiding of their spencer :1st: Red2nd: White3rd: Yellow4th: Dark BlueSee some examples down this page :<a href="http://www.military-photos.com/zouave2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.military-photos.com/zouave2.htm</a>Actually with old orthochromatic photo processes, the only one that can really be told is the White of the 2nd Zouaves (Red, Yellow and Dark blue turning out amazingly alike).I do share Chris's learnt opinion - looks like a KIA set.Suerte !JeromeThanks to allMiguel
Bison Posted May 8, 2008 Posted May 8, 2008 There were four French Zouave Regiments at the outbreak of WWI, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Zouaves.Hi Miguel and EddieIt is not completely true. In 1914, the 8th and 9th Zouave regiment were assembled and joined the other four regiments.At the end of the war, all those regiment were awarded with the L?gion d'honneur, except the 1st Regiment.They were considered as an elite, with special traditions and uniforms... and deserved much respect considering their bravoure. The last Zouave Regiment desapeared last year. It was the 9th, which was a commando center in Givet in Northern France. YoursBison
hipnos Posted May 8, 2008 Author Posted May 8, 2008 Hi Miguel and EddieIt is not completely true. In 1914, the 8th and 9th Zouave regiment were assembled and joined the other four regiments.At the end of the war, all those regiment were awarded with the L?gion d'honneur, except the 1st Regiment.They were considered as an elite, with special traditions and uniforms... and deserved much respect considering their bravoure. The last Zouave Regiment desapeared last year. It was the 9th, which was a commando center in Givet in Northern France. YoursBisonThanks Bison, sorry for the w&b photos...RegardsMiguel
Taz Posted May 8, 2008 Posted May 8, 2008 Thanks Bison,This is what I have on the numbers:In 1899 the law of that year created for each regiment of Zouaves a 5th Battalion, "to be stationed in France" in groupes des 5e batallions de Zouaves. The 5th battalions of the 1st and 4th Zouaves were stationed as part of the Gouvernement militaire de Paris. The 5th battalions of the 2nd and 3rd Zouaves were stationed in the r?gion militaire de Lyon. Upon mobilization for war in France, these battalions would form the nucleus of R?giments de Marche de Zouaves , each of 3 battalions.The four Zouave regiments of the French Army wore their traditional colorful dress during the early months of the First World War. The development of the machine gun, rapid fire artillery and improved small arms obliged them to adopt a plain khaki uniform from 1915 on.The Zouaves played a major role in the 1914-18 War with their numbers being expanded to nine regiments de marche.Regards Eddie
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 8, 2008 Posted May 8, 2008 And the Regiments Mixte, where I am sure the Zouaves wore the uniform of their parent unit...
Taz Posted May 8, 2008 Posted May 8, 2008 (edited) 3?me R?giment de ZouavesService and BattlesDate/Service 1852 - Organised and mustered in Philippeville, Algeria1852 - 1854 Campaign in Algeria1854 - 1855 Campaign in Russia (Crimean War)1857 - Campaign against the Kabyles, Algeria 1859 - Campaign in Italy (Italian unification)1860 - Algeria 1862 -1867 - Campaign in Mexico1864 -1869 Algeria1870 - 1871 Franco-Prussian War1881 - Tunesia 1885 - 1886 Tonkin (Indochina) 1900 - China (Boxer uprising) 1908 - 1914 Morocco1914 - 1918 - The Great War1914 - Tracy-le-Val, France 1915 - Champagne, France 1916 - Verdun, France1918 - Moreuil-Noyon, France 1940 -1945 - Second World War 1943 - Le Faid, Tunesia 1944 - 1945 - Europe 1945 - Germany 1956 1962 - Algeria (Algerian War) 1962 - Regiment disbandedAwardsDate/AwardMay 31, 1859 - M?daille d'Or de MilanMay 31, 1859 - M?daille d'Or al Valore MilitaireNovember 09, 1863 - Croix de la L?gion d'Honneur1919 - Croix de la Guerre 1914-1918 with 6 Palmes 1919M?daille Italienne de la Valeur1919 - M?daille Militaire1945 - Croix de Guerre 1939-1945 with 2 PalmesColoursDate/Campaign1854 - 1855 - Sevastopol, Crimea 1857 - Kabylen, Algeria 1859 - Palestro, Italy1863 - San Lorenzo, Mexico 1908 - 1912 - Morocco 1915 - Champagne, France 1916 - Verdun, France 1918 - Moreuil-Noyon, France 1943 - Le Faid, France 1945 - Danube, Germany Battle OrderDate/Order1852 - 1914 - 3?me R?giment de Zouaves1914 - 1943 - 3?me R?giment de Marche de Zouaves1943 - 1949 - 3?me Batallion de Zouaves Port?s1949 - 1962 - 3?me Batallion de Zouaves Edited May 8, 2008 by Taz
hipnos Posted May 8, 2008 Author Posted May 8, 2008 3?me R?giment de ZouavesService and BattlesDate/Service 1852 - Organised and mustered in Philippeville, Algeria1852 - 1854 Campaign in Algeria1854 - 1855 Campaign in Russia (Crimean War)1857 - Campaign against the Kabyles, Algeria 1859 - Campaign in Italy (Italian unification)1860 - Algeria 1862 -1867 - Campaign in Mexico1864 -1869 Algeria1870 - 1871 Franco-Prussian War1881 - Tunesia 1885 - 1886 Tonkin (Indochina) 1900 - China (Boxer uprising) 1908 - 1914 Morocco1914 - 1918 - The Great War1914 - Tracy-le-Val, France 1915 - Champagne, France 1916 - Verdun, France1918 - Moreuil-Noyon, France 1940 -1945 - Second World War 1943 - Le Faid, Tunesia 1944 - 1945 - Europe 1945 - Germany 1956 1962 - Algeria (Algerian War) 1962 - Regiment disbandedAwardsDate/AwardMay 31, 1859 - M?daille d'Or de MilanMay 31, 1859 - M?daille d'Or al Valore MilitaireNovember 09, 1863 - Croix de la L?gion d'Honneur1919 - Croix de la Guerre 1914-1918 with 6 Palmes 1919M?daille Italienne de la Valeur1919 - M?daille Militaire1945 - Croix de Guerre 1939-1945 with 2 PalmesColoursDate/Campaign1854 - 1855 - Sevastopol, Crimea 1857 - Kabylen, Algeria 1859 - Palestro, Italy1863 - San Lorenzo, Mexico 1908 - 1912 - Morocco 1915 - Champagne, France 1916 - Verdun, France 1918 - Moreuil-Noyon, France 1943 - Le Faid, France 1945 - Danube, Germany Battle OrderDate/Order1852 - 1914 - 3?me R?giment de Zouaves1914 - 1943 - 3?me R?giment de Marche de Zouaves1943 - 1949 - 3?me Batallion de Zouaves Port?s1949 - 1962 - 3?me Batallion de ZouavesThanks it?s very interesting...Do you have the same for the others Zouave?s regiments??Regards Miguel
Taz Posted May 8, 2008 Posted May 8, 2008 Thanks it?s very interesting...Do you have the same for the others Zouave?s regiments??Regards MiguelMiguel ,I'm still looking around for info for you, anything new i'll post here.Regards Eddie
Taz Posted May 8, 2008 Posted May 8, 2008 (edited) 1er R?giment de ZouavesService and BattlesDate/Service 1852 - Organised and mustered in Philippeville, AlgeriaLaghouat expedition.1853 - Babors expedition.1854 - 1855 Campaign in Russia (Crimean War)Sevastopol, Assault on Malakoff (8th Sept 1855)1856 - Returned to Algeria1857 - Kabylie expedition1859 - 4th battalion created. 8th May,Combat in Melegano (Italy) October returned to Algeria.1860 - 1861 - Syria expedition, returned in June.1862 - 1867 - 2 Battalions fight in Mexico, they return in April 1867.1870 - 1871 Franco-Prussian War1872 - Actions at Kabylie1876 - Peacekeeping operations in El Amri, Biskra.1882 - 2 Battalions take part in the M'Zab expedition1900 - 1901 China (Boxer uprising) 1914 - Charleroi (21-23 August) Battle of the Marne (6 - 13th Sept.) : Montmirail (9th Sept) Ch?teau-Thierry (10th Sept.) , Fismes (13th Sept.)Battle of Flanders: L'Yser, Luyghem, Bixschoote, Maison du Passeur.1915 - Flanders : Steenstraate, Lizerne 1916 - Battle of Verdun : Bois des Corbeaux et de Cumi?res (8-12th March)Battle of the Somme : bois de Chaulnes, Le Pressoir, Ablaincourt (July-August)1917 - Marne : Le Cornillet (14th May) 1918 - Attack on Matz (11th June) Aisne: Longpont, Villers-H?lon (18th July) Nampcel, Bl?rancourt L'Aisne (September) 1939 - Oran (2nd-26 Sept loaded and returned to France)25th-2nd October, Marsaille, 5th October camp D'Avord, 22nd October Maubeuge1940 - Luneville (7th April), Lorraine Front- Sarregumines (12th May), Dieuze (23rd May), Valmy, Sainte Menehould (27th May), Reims (5th June), Rilly-La-Montagne (6th June), Battle of the L'Aisne at Chamery (11th June), sermiers (12th June), regrouped Arcis-sur-Aube, Troyes (15 June) The Regiment is captured in the Mery sector and escorted to La Courtine.1944 - 1945 reformed in Algeria and joined the 1st Armoured DivisionDocked at St Tropez on the 15th August 1944. Edited May 9, 2008 by Taz
hipnos Posted May 9, 2008 Author Posted May 9, 2008 1er R?giment de Zouaves1914 : Charleroi (21-23 August) Battle of the Marne (6 - 13th Sept.) : Montmirail (9th Sept) Ch?teau-Thierry (10th Sept.) , Fismes (13th Sept.)Battle of Flanders: L'Yser, Luyghem, Bixschoote, Maison du Passeur. 1915 : Flanders : Steenstraate, Lizerne 1916 : Battle of Verdun : Bois des Corbeaux et de Cumi?res (8-12th March)Battle of the Somme : bois de Chaulnes, Le Pressoir, Ablaincourt (July-August)1917 : Marne : Le Cornillet (14th May) 1918 : Attack on Matz (11th June) Aisne: Longpont, Villers-H?lon (18th July) Nampcel, Bl?rancourt L'Aisne (September)Thanks again Miguel
Veteran Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 (edited) Hello allSince the question was put as to what uniform the Zouaves wore during WW1, here is a picture of my own father as a Sous/Lieutenant with the 3rd, in August 1915. As you can see, they wore the traditional French uniform (which might have been kaki and not light grey-blue) with the caracteristic red "chechia". It seems that they had exchanged the slouching variety as worn with the dress uniform shown on the first picture fot the higher "tirailleur" type.The pup was not normally part of the uniform.RegardsVeteran Edited May 9, 2008 by Veteran
hipnos Posted May 10, 2008 Author Posted May 10, 2008 Hello allSince the question was put as to what uniform the Zouaves wore during WW1, here is a picture of my own father as a Sous/Lieutenant with the 3rd, in August 1915. As you can see, they wore the traditional French uniform (which might have been kaki and not light grey-blue) with the caracteristic red "chechia". It seems that they had exchanged the slouching variety as worn with the dress uniform shown on the first picture fot the higher "tirailleur" type.The pup was not normally part of the uniform.RegardsVeteranThanks for compart this photo...The tall chechia could be conected with a later period than the slouch one represented in my pic???Thanks againmiguel
Veteran Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) Thanks for compart this photo...The tall chechia could be conected with a later period than the slouch one represented in my pic???Thanks againmiguelTo be honest, I don't really know. I have a hunch that the "slouch" chechia only went with the parade uniform. The "tirailleur" type may have been more generally worn during WW1 with the ordinary uniform, to be changed to a helmet when up front.My answer is mostly guesswork. Sorry !Veteran Edited May 12, 2008 by Veteran
Michael Johnson Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) You can get casualty lists here: http://www.memorial-genweb.org/~memorial2/...se1418/arme.phpRMZ for the Regular Zouave regiments (1-4, 7-9)RMZT for the Mixtes regiments (1-4)RZB for R?giments des Zouaves Bis (haven't a clue what these are - depot battalions?) Edited May 12, 2008 by Michael Johnson
hipnos Posted May 12, 2008 Author Posted May 12, 2008 You can get casualty lists here: <a href="http://www.memorial-genweb.org/~memorial2/...se1418/arme.php" target="_blank">http://www.memorial-genweb.org/~memorial2/...se1418/arme.php</a>RMZ for the Regular Zouave regiments (1-4, 7-9)RMZT for the Mixtes regiments (1-4)RZB for R?giments des Zouaves Bis (haven't a clue what these are - depot battalions?)Thanks for your collaboration. Not knowing their name /and/or Regiment I?m afraid that it?ll be almost impossible to seach more... RegardsMiguel
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