France colonial orders and medals

[Roeland]

Hello gents,

I have a question, I hope this is the right topic to ask.

I'm looking for a book about orders and medals that existed in the French colonial period.

I mean on orders like the black star of Benin, the star of Anjouan, Said Ali, Ouissam Alaouite,Nichan Iftikar etc.

So about orders in French colonial countries in Africa.

I really want a book on them, don't know if they are all in the same book or spread over different books(also good if someone knows multiple books). I don't need internet sites, and I'm looking for books in English, French, German of Dutch(I don't speak any other languages).

thanks for any tips.

kind regards,

Roeland

[Veteran]

Hello gents,

I have a question, I hope this is the right topic to ask.

I'm looking for a book about orders and medals that existed in the French colonial period.

I mean on orders like the black star of Benin, the star of Anjouan, Said Ali, Ouissam Alaouite,Nichan Iftikar etc.

So about orders in French colonial countries in Africa.

I really want a book on them, don't know if they are all in the same book or spread over different books(also good if someone knows multiple books). I don't need internet sites, and I'm looking for books in English, French, German of Dutch(I don't speak any other languages).

thanks for any tips.

kind regards,

Roeland

Hello Roeland

These orders have long and complicated stories.

The simplest useful source I would suggest in French is definitely SOUYRIS-ROLLAND "Guide des ordres, d?corations et m?dailles militaires 1814-1963" Paris 1979. This book is accurate and covers most French collectible awards. It can sometimes be found on e-Bay at affordable prices.

The second, which deals into the orders in more detail is MONNAIE DE PARIS "D?corations officielles fran?aises" Paris 1956. It is a big and beautiful book, which can also occasionnally be found second-hand.

Hope this proves useful

Best regards

Veteran

Edited May 11, 2008 by Veteran

[Ed_Haynes]

It is important to find sources which treat these awards in their legitimate indigenous context and not merely as some colonial extrusion of French awards. The best I have found are:

Basier, L., and L. Brunet, Les Ordres Coloniaux Francais (Paris: Revue des Colonies et Pays de Protectorat, 1898) - extremely good, maybe the best out there

Basier, L., and L. Brunet, Les Ordres Tunisiens (Paris: Revue des Colonies et Pays de Protectorat, 1898)

Hugon, Henri, Les Embl?mes des Beys de Tunis: ?tude sur les Signes de l?Autonomie Husseinite (Paris: Ernest Leroux, 1913) - a model for research and information!

de R?gnier, Henri, Histoire des D?corations Fran?aises Contemporaines (Paris: Javal et Bordeaux, 1933)

I have not seen M. Delande, Decorations: France et Colonies (Paris, 1934), but it is said to also be good.

I also know of some things in Arabic, but you didn't want those, right?

Edited May 11, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[922F]

Hello Roeland,

For Ouissam Alaouite-- Ordres et Decorations de l'Empire Cherifien by P. Rousseau, 2005 (sometimes available from the author on French eBay) about 60 euros plus postage.

For Said Ali-- a website you can access by Monsieur Pierre No?l DURONSOY pagesperso-nge.fr/pierrenoel.duronsoy/orc.htm. Supposedly, a slightly expanded printed version of this (with additional illustrations) was published in 2005-6 (Maybe in Reunion?) but I have never been able to find it.

For Tunis-- Les Decorations Tunisiennes a la Epoque Husseinite by M. BenAchour, 1994 (sometimes available on eBay) from 10-100 euros.

Black Star of Benin--L'Etoile Noir et les medailles d'Atchupa et du Dahomey Daguin 1894 (copy in American Numismatic Association library)

General

Les Decorations Francaise et des Protectorats Daguin (1890s--have not seen this--copy supposed to be in American Numismatic Association library)

Notes on Decorations & Medals of French Colonies & Protectorates, Gillingham 1928

Les Ordres Coloniaux Francais Pierredon 1907(used to be a copy in OMSA library)

If you have access to the Sabretache journal you will find many articles on French colonial Orders and Decorations.

[Lapa]

...For Said Ali-- a website you can access by Monsieur Pierre No?l DURONSOY pagesperso-nge.fr/pierrenoel.duronsoy/orc.htm. Supposedly, a slightly expanded printed version of this (with additional illustrations) was published in 2005-6 (Maybe in Reunion?) but I have never been able to find it.

922F,

The URL you gave is not complete. Could you please post the right one.

Thanks,

Marc

[922F]

Try (I omitted part of "orange!) Cheers!

[Roeland]

hello gents,

thanks for the many replies, you really gave me usefull information and tips, I had no idea of them myself.

I already found the monnaie de paris book, should come in soon.

if anyone knows where I can buy others I like, please lett me know, I'm interested in these 2(although the others sound interesting as well):

Basier, L., and L. Brunet, Les Ordres Coloniaux Francais (Paris: Revue des Colonies et Pays de Protectorat, 1898)

SOUYRIS-ROLLAND "Guide des ordres, d?corations et m?dailles militaires 1814-1963" Paris 1979

furthermore I found this book:

Nicolas de ROFFIGNAC, ORDRES et MEDAILLES des PAYS D'AFRIQUE ? l'?poque POST-COLONIALE

de 1960 ? nos jours

it describes 126 orders and medals, and the French colonial countries are all mentioned in the list, but that's all I know, I have no idea if it would be of any use.

has anyone heard of or seen this book, is it any good?

I know some orders have stopped to excist in 1963, but if it is from 1960 untill now they might be in it (and some orders still excists).

btw, the reason I'm asking is because I now started collecting some of those colonial orders(don't have much yet), I want to use the books for when I buy orders, but also I'm putting it on paper(for myself) and want to get the information from books and use them as reference.

Here's an example, I bought a picture book and describe all my orders (not an official book, just for myself about my collection),

I describe the history of the orders and on the right page are pictures(taken myself of my own orders)+ information(like sizes and if possible to whom it was awarded).

example, legion d'honneur:

thanks for the help, and thanks in advance if anyone can tell me where to find the other 2 books I'm looking for.

kind regards,

Roeland

Edited May 13, 2008 by Roeland

[Hendrik]

furthermore I found this book:

Nicolas de ROFFIGNAC, ORDRES et MEDAILLES des PAYS D'AFRIQUE ? l'?poque POST-COLONIALE

de 1960 ? nos jours

Hello Roeland,

The de Roffignac book deals with orders etc. from African countries AFTER their becoming independent. Great book but not on French colonial awards.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Ed_Haynes]

Hello Roeland,

The de Roffignac book deals with orders etc. from African countries AFTER their becoming independent. Great book but not on French colonial awards.

Cheers,

Hendrik

Hendrik-

Where can that book be found? Abebooks was no joy.

Thanks,

Ed

[922F]

Nicolas de ROFFIGNAC, ORDRES et MEDAILLES des PAYS D'AFRIQUE ? l'?poque POST-COLONIALE

de 1960 ? nos jours

This paperback trade-edition type book is available on French eBay from time to time priced from 50 to 80 euros, plus postage. See below for only 50 euros "buy it now" <H1 class=itemTitle>Livre ORDRES ET MEDAILLES DES PAYS D'AFRIQUE</H1>Num?ro de l'objet : 140232751435 I have dealt with this seller several times; he is a true friendly, knowledgable and correct gentleman.

Problems with this book outlined in earlier posts include 1) use of materials without acknowledgement of original and/or secondary source 2) confusion between differing decorations of various states and 3) wrong information--Liberian section is a notable example.

It is quite true that attempting to gather information on independent African state awards is difficult--that does not justify use of materials without acknowledgement. Furthermore, confusion over relatively well known facts (or at least published facts) seems out-of-place when perfectly adequate information in major world languages is available. Unfortunately, Stair Sainty & Heydel-Mankoo perpetuate some of the same errors, likely as a result of their use of Roffignac's information.

Steam vented, this is the ONLY easily available, general source on awards of post-independence African States. In the Werlich and Stair Sainty & Heydel-Mankoo vein, that alone commends it to students of this neglected area. A second edition is rumored to be in the works. Besides correcting many errors and adding more illustrations, the 2nd edition is slated to (finally) credit information sources. Most recent info suggests this revised edition will cost about 120 euros.

SOUYRIS-ROLLAND "Guide des ordres, d?corations et m?dailles militaires 1814-1963" Paris 1979 is also on French eBay from time to time--there are at least 2 editions.

Edited May 13, 2008 by 922F

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks, but no use, as I do not use e$cam. A shame no real book dealers stock it Author stupidity?

Many problems with the Sainty & Heydel-Mankoo work. They got information (I know) and re-worked (= distorted) it.

[Hendrik]

Where can that book be found?

Hello Ed,

Give me a couple of days - I'll contact some French collectors ...

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Hendrik]

Ed,

Your inbox seems to need emptying ...

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed,

Your inbox seems to need emptying ...

Cheers,

Hendrik

Oops. Sorry. Fixed (a bit). Ed

[Hendrik]

Ed,

PM sent ...

Cheers,

Hendrik

[hipnos]

hello gents,

thanks for the many replies, you really gave me usefull information and tips, I had no idea of them myself.

I already found the monnaie de paris book, should come in soon.

if anyone knows where I can buy others I like, please lett me know, I'm interested in these 2(although the others sound interesting as well):

Basier, L., and L. Brunet, Les Ordres Coloniaux Francais (Paris: Revue des Colonies et Pays de Protectorat, 1898)

SOUYRIS-ROLLAND "Guide des ordres, d?corations et m?dailles militaires 1814-1963" Paris 1979

furthermore I found this book:

Nicolas de ROFFIGNAC, ORDRES et MEDAILLES des PAYS D'AFRIQUE ? l'?poque POST-COLONIALE

de 1960 ? nos jours

it describes 126 orders and medals, and the French colonial countries are all mentioned in the list, but that's all I know, I have no idea if it would be of any use.

has anyone heard of or seen this book, is it any good?

I know some orders have stopped to excist in 1963, but if it is from 1960 untill now they might be in it (and some orders still excists).

btw, the reason I'm asking is because I now started collecting some of those colonial orders(don't have much yet), I want to use the books for when I buy orders, but also I'm putting it on paper(for myself) and want to get the information from books and use them as reference.

Here's an example, I bought a picture book and describe all my orders (not an official book, just for myself about my collection),

I describe the history of the orders and on the right page are pictures(taken myself of my own orders)+ information(like sizes and if possible to whom it was awarded).

example, legion d'honneur:

thanks for the help, and thanks in advance if anyone can tell me where to find the other 2 books I'm looking for.

kind regards,

Roeland

I have in "My Albums", sub directory : "A veriety of awards" 2 colonial orders. Black star of Benin ans star of Anjouan. You can see it if you wants. Regards

Miguel