New ribbon bars (ID possible?)

[Noor]

Hello,

After holiday, here is some ribbon bars what I got and would like to find out some extra information about them...

1. HHOX winner. Is ID possible?

[Noor]

2. ID is impossible like I understand but I would like to know:

a. Definetly 100% officer?

b. Whats the story with the second ribbon? Is it RAO?

[Noor]

3. ID is impossible but I would like to be sure:

a. It is a Saxon officer, isn't it?

b. First award is Albert order and third Bavaria MVO, am I right?

c. What is the last ribbon? Dont look like Hamburg cross or is it?

[Noor]

4. Nice 11 place ribbon bar. Is it ID possible? Also:

a. From which State is this officer from (If ID is not possible)? Or after 1934 its impossible to say?

b. What ribbons are 5th and 6th? RAO and Crown order????

c. Is the last ribbon Imperial Russia Order of the St.Anne?

[webr55]

The first one I've seen before and I think it has been ID'd - but I just can't remember who it was...

#3 is a Saxon officer with the TWM in last place.

Edited May 16, 2008 by webr55

[HeikoGrusdat]

first one is from my collection but has never been ID?d...... as far as I know

[webr55]

first one is from my collection but has never been ID?d...... as far as I know

so maybe I was wrong... it should be an Oberst aD, in any case.

[Ulsterman]

#3 is awesome. I'd wager that guy was commanding a battalion or 400+ #d regiment in 1918.

[Guest Rick Research]

You have been on vacation in the Secret Land Of Magic Ribbon Bars!!!!

NONE of these combinations pop right out at me from what I have available right now. ALL of them WILL be identifiable by next year, hopefully.

I don't know whatever happened to the L?beck Hanseatic Roll work, but with seeheld's Mecklenburg, Daniel's HOH3X, and our eventual re-work of Saxony, I think ALL will be identifiable--if NOT in '09, by '14 and the Centennial.

First ribbon bar was certainly a staff major. The second one MIGHT be 1920+-- a long service with no 1897-- or he was a dR/dL officer. That style is a wartime arrangement for the central pin, so I'm not sure which it might be.

The Saxon combination is as good as those get, with Bavarian, Austrian, and Turkish awards to find him. PROBABLY from Inf Rgt 102. Wrrner Fischer and Artur von Sternstein seem good early suspects, but information is currently incomplete. Hans von Larisch and Werner Geidel might also eventually match up. Orrrrrr, he was aa staff officer with no connection at all to IR 102.

The last ribbon bar ends with a Russian St Anna, and something about the combination suggests NAVY to me. I'll try looking there. Note that this OLD retired officer simply had the Hindenburg CrossX ADDED to his existing ribbon bar, squooshing the other ribbons over a bit on the same sized backing.

Remember: we have only got perhaps 20% of the Imperial officer corps SOLIDLY identifiable-- from Reichswehr Lists, or if they had distinctive combinations BEFORE 1914. The vast majority-- that other 4 out of 5-- are "invisible" during the 1914-18 war UNLESS we can piece them together from award rolls.

As a really good example-- all five of these new ribbon bars have the ?M3K...

and we do NOT have a listing for Austroi-Hungarian awards to Germans.

ONE such complete list, and we'd have an enormous addition to the data base for identifying groups.

[Noor]

Thank you guys for the information! I will wait then, when some new rolles are published .

Webr55.... sorry my stupid question but what award is TWM? I can't find this one on the Abreviations list here... is it Hessen War Honor Decoration?

[Guest Rick Research]

T urkish W ar M edal star-- "TH" or "THM" in German, =

worn on ribbon bars as a red ribbon with white stripes like an EK2.

My brain goes back and forth between German and English and I use both versions of abbreviations all the time.

[Noor]

Thanks Rick! I will add it to my conspectus!

[saschaw]

Timo, that are some really great bars, but you've got to promise me you won't buy the Baden stuff, will you? You actually don't want that...

Will e-mail you soon, might have something to add for your collection - but I'm short in time at the moment.

[Noor]

Saschaw! I will let you know when something from Baden arrise!

Cant wait to see your email now! I am always open for a new stuff

Here is my today arrivals and new ribbon bars what I managed to get..........one HHOX involved as well

will post better pictures tomorrow when I can make better shots but whats the story with the third one... very very interesting combination because the Africa campaign and the Olympics... some kind a desk guy all around the world??? Also two blue ribbons... one is LS but whats another then/or are they bouth LS ones?

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes, will need to see the BACKS too.

There is only 1 explanation for that-- it is not a 1914 Iron Cross, but a Colonial Military Decoration 2nd Class silver medal (MEZ2) and this man missed military service 1914-18 completely.

Or... the bar is bad.

That's why always need to see the BACKS too.

My favorite is the next to bottom one, with bavarian War Merit ribon for a Military Merit Cross-- what color Xs on that?

[Noor]

MVK(O) swords are silver!

Here is one bad picture of the reverse regarding third ribbon bar from above. I will make better ones tomorrow.

[HeikoGrusdat]

if the dswa/olympia bar is good................................. it can`t be MEZ2........................... because the dswa is a steel medal behind the LS-awards

.................if it is not MEZ2................it has to be EK2.................and then the ribbon for the Hindenburg is missing............... ???

[Noor]

Thanks Heiko and Rick!

Here is some better pictures:

1.

2. Actually swords are bronze and not silver, like I was looking in the night.

[Noor]

3. Pity that the EK ribbon is loose

4. Dirty, dirty, dirty

[paddywhack]

and all lovely lovely bars!!never drink and trade kids!!never drink and trade!! i kid!!sorry to see them leave but i got a good deal to!!all good!!

[Noor]

I maybe asked already but..... is this bar possible to ID or no chance at all?

just need to know because maybe it goes

[Guest Rick Research]

Identifiable TODAY? No.

Identifiable SOON? I would say there is a very strong possibility.

The Mecklenburg and Hamburg ribbons, combined with BOTH the Silesian Eagle AND Baltic Cross ribbons suggests navy to me rather than army.

Seeheld's Mecklenburg rolls are in progress.

Hamburg's rolls are in limbo, but will be possible eventually.

The Prussian War Effort Cross and plain blue long service ribbon at the end are hints at something odd about this guy's career-- either a reserve officer with an Imperial LD2 that had no Third Reich equivalent, or an unusual combination of WW1 duties and in the R.A.D.

There are enough pieces here that WHEN the data jigsaw gets combined, I'd have some hopes for an identifcation.

More and more data is accumulated every day.

[Noor]

Thanks Rick!

I don't have problem to wait not so ever! If the name pops up some moment, I would be very happy! I find it very interesting combination.

Here is another six place common combination.

Am I right:

- WW1 vet. Probably NCO level because no LS award during the first war?

- He was front line soldier because swords on the Hindenburg cross ribbon

- Probably from Hessen because the Hessen General Honor Decoration (probably "For Bravery")

- Tyrol Province Remembrance Medal (Isn't the last one?) shows that he was probably one of the guys from German mountain troops who defended Tirol?

- Civilian during the WW2 but some kind of official because the Faithful Service Cross and KVK2 with swords

Now why:

- KVK2 are with swords? How often civilians got combat awards, what swords are supposed to indicate

- Were swords on Tyrol Province Remembrance Medal official device or not

- Some other thoughts/information?

[Guest Rick Research]

The ;ast ribbon is the Bulgarian WW1 Commemorative Medal. It didn't need any Xs because the ribbon itself is for combatants but the Germans slapped Xs on anything foreign and exotic.

The Hessian ribbon should be in front of the Hindeburg Cross,so that is an error. It is the kind of mistake we hope to find a photo of the guy WEARING the same ribbon bar.

Nothing here to indicate rank. He could have been a Leutnant or even a Hauptmann in the First war, or a private. So this ribbon bar would go on any uniform from an NCO to a Major. :cheers:

[Noor]

Thank you Rick,

But why then officer level at least didn't wear something, what shows they LS???

This guy loved is swords on the foreign commemorative awards :

The last ribbon vas pretty washed, so I was thinking that its Tyrol medal .

Anyway, what about this Baden bar last ribbon (saschaw, you don't collect so common combinations I presume)?

Edited July 16, 2008 by Noor