One more of my father's bars - Hohenzollern

[saschaw]

Here's one more of my father's bars collection. This one came from the elderly's man collection we sold for him on eBay. The man was very lucky we did this effort for him and kindly sold us some of the nicer things for good prices. I'll show some of these things here by time. Here's a seven place medal bar with orders from Hohenzollern, Bavaria, Saxony and Austria. I think the combination's unique, with the principal Hohenollern being quite scarce. Should have been a Leutnant to Oberleutant at the war, but the long service award makes me wonder. Is that switched or might that be okay?

By the way, it has a tag on the reverse saying it was sewn by "Fr. ACKERMANN, MILIT?RAUSR?STUNGEN, KOBLENZ/RH. BALDUINSTR.1". Is anything okay with the bar and does someone find the former wearer? I hope you like it, we do.

Edited May 24, 2008 by saschaw

[saschaw]

A close up of the more important part as I had to resize the other pictures hardly. The Albrecht is made by Glaser and has a "G", the MVO is that tighly sewn I cannot read the maker mark it might have. Looks like Hemmerle to me, but I'm not very good with that. Well, actually I don't care if it's Hemmerle or Weiss, the main thing is it's an original one - and has real gold medaillons...

[Stogieman]

Isn't that the "Member's Cross" to the Princely Hohenzollern House Order? An exceptionally rare piece! The swords are real gold? Very nice and unique bar!

[Daniel Cole]

Definately a Princely Hohenzollern

Edited May 24, 2008 by Daniel Cole

[saschaw]

No, that's the "Ehrenkreuz III. Klasse" of the princely Hohenzollern. There was no member's cross to that order but only to the royal Prussian - and the royal member's cross should have the black and white ribbon and another medaillon, with the eagle as the knight's crosses have. The swords look rather to be gilt but I'm not sure. Compared to the royal member's cross the principal HOH3X is somewhat common, isn't it about 17 vs. 1.000 awards? Well, still nothing too common.

Pity the bar has no Z?hringer lion order, would look better with in our collection...

Edited May 24, 2008 by saschaw

[Stogieman]

Thanks Saschaw, I often get the scarcer variations/classes of these orders confused in my old age! Still a very rare piece and a bar to be proud of for sure!

[KIR]

Very nice and unique bar! Thanks!

[Guest Rick Research]

The XV doesn't SEEM to make any sense here-- any Feuerwerks etc type NCO with that by 1914 promoted to technical officer would have had an XXV when he was demobilized in 1920...

but it all looks "as made." I can't EXPLAIN it, but it looks absolutely original.

I don't find any obvious suspect from the Hohenzollern rolls, and suspect this will only be traceable with the COMPLETE BMV4X and SA3bX rolls.

This person was obviously a Leutnant during the war, which with the XV suggests somebody like a Feuerwerks- or Zeug-Leutnant. There were no possible Zeug or Zahlmeister recipients of the HEK3X, and the only two "suspects" I can find among the ordnance specialists were

Feuerwerks-Leutnant dL Friedrich Schrader and Feuerwerks-Leutnant dL II Wilhelm Wittig. They would ONLy be possible if they were ex-career NCOs who retired before 1897 with an XV, and were called up and commissioned at age 50+ in 1914. Normally any dL supect we'd expect to see an LD2, but perhaps these sorts of technical officers were gievn that status as OLD ex-NCOs?

That XV-not-XXV with no 1897 is tough to figure out.

[VtwinVince]

Now that's a nice combo, congratulations on this great spange.

[Glenn J]

Rick,

They would ONLy be possible if they were ex-career NCOs who retired before 1897

I have not found a listing for Schrader but Oberfeuerwerker Wittig a.D. was commissioned as a Feurwerkslt. d.L II on 16.2.15.

Regards

Glenn

Edited May 25, 2008 by Glenn J

[saschaw]

Thanks for all your effort and input by now. I wonder if you'll come up with a name or if it rests impossible. I didn't realize the Saxon and Bavarian lists are incomplete published and so thought this was rather an easy one with the HOH...

That XV-not-XXV with no 1897 is tough to figure out.

I like the bar and think it is as made, but I've got to say that much of the collection wasn't untouched. There were fine bars, put together bars and - worst of all - old bars that has been played with, many had a new red backing glued on it! I hate those fools and I'm sorry I have to call a man in his mid 80s a fool, but someone collecting for about 50 years, destroying wonderfull pretty bars is nothing else.

I'll show one of the bars I'm talking about later. One that stunnes me for months. Well, I'll post it directly - and here it is.