3 Imperial (and imperial&royal) bar just coming...

[hipnos]

A litte and neat frackspange...sorry the EK2 don?t come with the non combatant ribbon

It takes some time but they come home...

Comments are wellcome

Miguel

[hipnos]

A Splendid frackspange, you sure knows of the forum...

[hipnos]

A "Big" and somewhat strange AH bar Mounted like a Imperial german and with a Hesse bravery medal (and 2 Bulgarian medals)

[HeikoGrusdat]

your little Frackspange is even better this way than with noncom-ribbon!!!! It is the "third type" .... noncom-EK on combattant ribbon for homeservice - great bar!!!!

[hipnos]

your little Frackspange is even better this way than with noncom-ribbon!!!! It is the "third type" .... noncom-EK on combattant ribbon for homeservice - great bar!!!!

Wow, I never think i was possible...Can you explain me more about this EK2 non combat with combat ribbon???

Thanks Heiko

Miguel

[sambolini]

Hi,

The medal bar in post 2 I believe was determined to be a fake, in that it is made up from original medals but is a modern construct. It was discussed on the forum we don't name here, but go there and do a search under "admirals's bar". this bar has certainly made the rounds, I've seen it sold at least twice. The second time it was sold just for the value of it's parts.

Kind regards,

Sam K.

[Noor]

I owed this bar and I got it as well from another member of the forum and also good friend here in Dublin. I post it up here as well and I know the threat in this another forum but nowhere is 100% sure answer about that is it made up or not.

Anyway, hipnos, its look like we have to discuss about our deal again . If you dont like it, I will buy/swap it back and I will sell awards separatly from this bar!

[Stogieman]

I think Bar #2 and the Austro-Hungarian bar are both modern assenbly using real pieces.

[HeikoGrusdat]

I am on the same way............... 2 + 3 are modern made bars.....

[Stogieman]

BUT! The first one is for sure real, gorgeous and scarce!

[Guest Rick Research]

That Austrian bar with the Hessian medal was discussed here about a month ago? Very odd.

At this point, I would recommend NOT buying ANYTHING from Austria, EVER. Greatly simplifies life.

You have to realize that FRACKSPANGES were NOT worn by the German military. In my 40 years of collecting, I have seen exactly ONE that was made to be worn that way on a military uniform-- and that was custom fitted to a Luftwaffe "monkey suit" waist length mess dress jacket that was part of an INTACT never separated group.

One of the dumbest stories told by dealers who don't know what they are talking about is that Frackspangen were worn on naval uniforms.

They were not.

Ever.

Here is Admiral Wedding, in a portrait sold by a friend to my late friend George Seymour, and sold by Thies to I know not whom:

Frackspangen were worn by CIVILIANS on tuxedos:

That Frackspange above is a Frankenstein parts bar.

I REALLY do wish people might ASK the world's greatest living (now that the really great ones are all dead) experts on such things FIRST. We are ALL

right HERE.

Whoever FIRST started this off by claiming the Frackspange was an "admiral's bar" doesn't know what they are talking about.

SO: who do you BELIEVE--

a seller making something up-- just because he SAYS so?

Or the planet's guild of research fanatics, who have no fincial gain to any 3rd party deals, and offer advice

GOOD advice

to anybody willing to listen?

[Noor]

Rick, you are right. Anyway, not experience person, like I am, it will put me a bad situation now + shame front of hipnos .

[VtwinVince]

I tried to buy bar 2 some time ago, but I think Timo beat me to it. I was always convinced it was put together out of parts. The first bar is a gem.

[Guest Rick Research]

LOOK:

we have ONE purpose in life here--

to SHARE our knowledge and experience and make sure that NOBODY

EVER

makes mistakes.

We have ALL made them.

But it must come down to this:

If anyone does not know what they are buying--- do not buy it.

Or at least ASK FIRST.

There is no substitute for KNOWLEDGE.

Study, read, buy the books and

THEN buy something.

Snatching things up from sellers who do not have a clue is not a good system. These days, even Famous Big Names are cheerfully sliding through junk on their dying reputations. And it would appear, since I've been expelled a mere 3 years that there are many so-called and self-advertised "respected reputations" that did not exist BEFORE May 2005-- and whose expertise is firmly at the eBay/yard sale level from what I've seen.

This stuff costs too much to just grab anything that comes along without knowing whether it is GOOD or not, from people who don't know anything about what they are selling you.

WE aren't here to sell anybody anything. We're here to HELP.

[saschaw]

Though I'm not 100% convinced the 2nd bar is a put together. When it was shown on an earlier thread, came we to this clue without any doubt?! Wasn't navy rather suggested from the "frack style" than from the combination? That's an very early Red Eagle order (meaning to a not too long served officer), as they were given rather to navy than to army. The long service awards, the Sileasian eagle, the Flanderncross and all that suggest navy, at least to me. A Frackspange for civilian wear though, of course.

The 3rd one looks pretty much to be a modern put together from am-militaria or a similar seller, but I cannot prove it as I don't find it in my data base right now. Though here I'm quite sure it's "bad".

[hipnos]

Though I'm not 100% convinced the 2nd bar is a put together. When it was shown on an earlier thread, came we to this clue without any doubt?! Wasn't navy rather suggested from the "frack style" than from the combination? That's an very early Red Eagle order (meaning to a not too long served officer), as they were given rather to navy than to army. The long service awards, the Sileasian eagle, the Flanderncross and all that suggest navy, at least to me. A Frackspange for civilian wear though, of course.

The 3rd one looks pretty much to be a modern put together from am-militaria or a similar seller, but I cannot prove it as I don't find it in my data base right now. Though here I'm quite sure it's "bad".

The whole thing is quite embarrasing. I?m always the feeling that I?m a thorn on the moderator?s /expert?s side in the forum because of I?m always presenting questions, that to the best part of you must seem 1st grade school questions...I?ve just begin to buy books on the Imperial German matter but it?isn?t enough. We must admit that the learning process must include personal errors before learn really the trade. As I?ve never own a bar out of un-searchables NCO ones, I?was really eager to find one in my expending possibilities and a cross interest in swap medals made for me possible to got this pretty looking Bar, I must admit that Noor tell me about this was a devolution from another buyer on thr grounds of a UV-brighting of a Ribbon, but with no another similar offer in the scope of my possibilities (heiko magnificent bars are quite out of my spending-money possibilities)...

I can?t pass on this offer...well...That?s learning.

I?m very grateful to all the big brains here and speciallly rick that ever has a sound advice and own?s a encyclopaedic knowledge on the matter, like Heiko. and others.

I must say that I was someway intrigued for the frequency of frackspange...I was thinking that a lot of officers/officials must have 2 bars...one for bearing with the frack and another with the uniform. That puzzled me.??

I don?t forget to give thanks to all of you for the added work of translate my self-learning english

We?ll continuing to learn here.

Greetings to all and goodspeed!!

Miguel

PS/ By the way: I?m asking before on the austrian bar and the hesse medal give us serious misgivings, but the price was enough fair as to win the bar without thinking about (I?m surprised whe I win it), and I think is always an asset to sell in ebay again...)

[Stogieman]

My dearest Miguel.... please. you are NOT a thorn in anyone's side(s) at all ever...

You will never be frowned upon for asking questions. It doesn't matter how long you have been collecting. The day any of us stop learning is the day we should stop collecting. There's always something new to discover, more knowledge to gain, more doors to open. I think you're feeling the frustration older members have when a newer collector makes mistakes.

No one is perfect, we all make mistakes... I made one this morning at a show that cost me $50. My fault, not the seller's at all. Please, please, please...... NEVER stop asking questions!

But for the sake of your own sanity (and maybe for your pocketbook too) ask many questions before you spend your hard-earned money. I have been doing this a very long time and guess what..... I always ask a fellow collector and/or friend their opinion. It is only when I am 101% positive of what I am doing that I buy.... doesn't happen all that often!!

If anything... it's getting harder and harder as the fakers are working just as hard as us except they are working to steal and we are trying to learn how not to be stolen from.

That doesn't mean people do not make honest mistakes... it happens. It's the resolution of the honest mistake that will demonstrate a fellow collector's character. Remember... none of us are perfect no matter how hard we try. But, some people here have more experience and many of us have lost thousands of dollars on bad pieces.... we just don't want to see someone else get hurt. (If I may be so bold as to speak for many of us?)

Keep coming back, keep reading, keep learning.

The only bad question........

...... well, it will be the one you do not ask!

[hipnos]

My dearest Miguel.... please. you are NOT a thorn in anyone's side(s) at all ever...

You will never be frowned upon for asking questions. It doesn't matter how long you have been collecting. The day any of us stop learning is the day we should stop collecting. There's always something new to discover, more knowledge to gain, more doors to open. I think you're feeling the frustration older members have when a newer collector makes mistakes.

No one is perfect, we all make mistakes... I made one this morning at a show that cost me $50. My fault, not the seller's at all. Please, please, please...... NEVER stop asking questions!

But for the sake of your own sanity (and maybe for your pocketbook too) ask many questions before you spend your hard-earned money. I have been doing this a very long time and guess what..... I always ask a fellow collector and/or friend their opinion. It is only when I am 101% positive of what I am doing that I buy.... doesn't happen all that often!!

If anything... it's getting harder and harder as the fakers are working just as hard as us except they are working to steal and we are trying to learn how not to be stolen from.

That doesn't mean people do not make honest mistakes... it happens. It's the resolution of the honest mistake that will demonstrate a fellow collector's character. Remember... none of us are perfect no matter how hard we try. But, some people here have more experience and many of us have lost thousands of dollars on bad pieces.... we just don't want to see someone else get hurt. (If I may be so bold as to speak for many of us?)

Keep coming back, keep reading, keep learning.

The only bad question........

...... well, it will be the one you do not ask!

Thanks from the heart

Miguel

[Guest Rick Research]

We are all brothers here. Our first, last, and always purpose is to help each other in every way we can. Sometimes, that is with bad news instead of good news. That's life!

Things keep getting worse and worse "out there." The Bad Guys keep flooding more and more bad stuff onto the market.

The only way we can fight it is to share our knowledge and experience.

Never ever ever EVER be embarassed to ask a question. You will always get an honest answer.

There are obscure things that I know so well peoiple think I have supernatural powers and yet about many other things I know absolutely NOTHING.

I have just started to collect Cold War Romanian and other Warsaw Pact things with NO information and must ask CONSTANTLY for the most basic of help. We are ALL learning something.

[VtwinVince]

Hear, hear, Rick and Stogie. The first place I always consult regarding Imperial is right here. I've been collecting a long time, and I'm always amazed at how little I really know.