Luftwaffe Cloth glider badge - real versus fake

[Stijn David]

Hello,

The German glider pilots badge is a rare bird in a collection nowadays, the cloth version is to be considered even more rare and is not a easy one to find.

Due to this rarity it was only a mtter of time before fakes would appear, in this thread it is the purpose to show a real badge and its fake counterpart.

The fake badge as shown here has known its birth in the mid 80's in germany. It was produced in order of a very large German LW collector and a original badge was used as reference piece. To make things even a bit more difficult original cloth and original threads where used to reproduce this badge.

So a blacklight wont bring you any help any more, the difference is al in the details (such as the feathering) and knowing what you are after is the main thing one can do.

The badge shown in this post is a original cloth glider pilots badge, this one was worn by a glider veteran and was obtained directly from this person.

Cordial greetings,

Edited November 2, 2005 by Stijn David

[Stijn David]

Hello,

And here is the fake counterpart => the colourdifferences are mainly due to the scan. Have fun in studying this one

Cordial greetings,

[Paul R]

I do see the differences in the feathering. There is not as much detail in the repro. Also, the wreath looks more like a laurel of conifer limbs than oakleaves.

It is a pretty darn scary repro. It would be even more tricky if it were to be aged/worn.

V/r

Paul

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Indeed, a scary repro. It would be quite easy to be aged and as you point out => the feathering, etc ... will be the main difference to look after.

I just hope that nobody will find such a cloth one in his collection.

Cordial greetings,

[J Temple-West]

Well, due to this thread, I've saved some pennies. I have been looking at an example of this cloth glider badge which turns out to be one of the fakes that you show. Many thanks, Stijn.

I'm hoping that, if you have the time, you'll post some examples from each maker so that we'll have a reference, as well as some known fakes to compare with.

Oh yes, whilst I'm here.... what's your opinion on this one, Stijn? Not very good pictures, not sure what the 'A' under the the right rivet is all about but it looks to have a typical Juncker reverse setup for a zincer.

[Paul R]

The Glider badge is one of the few that I do not have at this time... I would even settle for a repaired example at this point!!

From my limited experience in glider badges, I would say that yours is a great example. Top Self condition!

Paul

Edited November 3, 2005 by Paul Reck

[Stijn David]

Hello,

@ John : could you tel us for howmuch that cloth badge was offered? And offcoarse where?, as i am interested to see where these do turn up.

About that shown badge, i do not like it from the shown pictures, the eagle is atypical for Junckers production (it is rather a BSW eagle), the reverse also do show some things i do not like and i think that it is a 57 model eagle used on a swas. wreath. This is not the first one i do see like this but it is a rather dangerous one it seems.

Better pictures from both the wreath (obverse) and eagle can bring clarity in this. But as said it is not one i would take into my collection.

@ Paul : take your time, a good one will pass by. Feel free to ask me iff you ever see one as i would be delighted to give advice.

I am working on a book on this badge (would be published at teh end of 2006), then the 100 % accepted originals will be known and you will have a reference.

Cordial greetings,

[J Temple-West]

The badge shown is, at present, for sale on a UK dealer site. Stijn, thanks for the opinion, more pennies saved.

I look forward to the book release. Put me down for a copy.

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Thank you John, i did find it already. The sad thing is that sooner or later a ubnknowing person wil jump on it => oh wel, then they have not done their homework and did not reed this thread

You wil have the appropriate time to subscribe for a copy of the book, once it is announced that it is available person will be able to subscribe

Iff you have questions about certain gldier badges feel free to contact me, as i am always prepared to help you out with my opinion.

Any persons who have a cloth glider pilots badge hidden in that collection? Iff so feel free to post it as my birdy is getting lonely and wonder where all his brothers and sister went too

Cordial greetings,

[Stogieman]

I think the wreath and the finish on that UK fake should be enough to send a collector running. Yuck!

[Guest WAR LORD]

A couple of cloth badges for consideration

[Guest WAR LORD]

a tan version

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Thank you for posting these badges Warlord. Iff i am not mistaking the tan coloured badge is the one that also do shows up in the A.Forman books. ?

Could you also show the reverses of both badges?

I do loke what i see so far and would love to see more. The normal coloured badge looks 100 % genuine according to me. Is it a flat version? (i do mean not padded). s,

Cordial greetings

[Guest WAR LORD]

The normal one is padded. I will scan the reverses of the two. Here is another for consideration

[Guest WAR LORD]

Here are the reverse

[Guest WAR LORD]

the other

[PKeating]

Not sure about tan-backed Luftwaffe flight badges, Chris. I've never seen a photo of a cloth Glider Pilot Badge on a tropical tunic but I have photos of Fallschirmj?ger wearing their cloth jump badges on LW-issue tropical tunics and in every case they are 'normal' blue-grey-backed versions. Your blue-grey one appears to be absolutely OK. So does your metal one. Here, for interests' sake, are a few things Stijn will recognise.

PK

[PKeating]

By the way, Stijn, I found more photos of Otto Bracht and his comrades in the ECPA-D in France. He was with 2. Fallschirmj?ger-Division around Zhitomir in the Ukraine from November 1943 to April 1944, when the division went to France. Anyway, I thought other readers might like to see one of the men who earned the Glider Pilot Badge and to remember that once on the ground, they often assumed combat status.

PK

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Thank you for the additional pictures.

@ Warlord:

1) the blue one is as said before perfect and my badge is also the padded version. (first badge pictured)

2) i have absolutely no problem with the tropical cloth badge very nice one. I have one picture of a glider friend while active in Tunesia (Lw. Feld. Rgt. Barenthin), one can see the tropical cloth badge in wear (altough not very well) => will see iff i can find the pictures

3) your other shown badge is a typical BSW badge, cracks in the wreath, seems like a typical eagle, etc ... (pictures are not the best but more close ups will confirm iff it is a marked or unmarked type)

@ Prosper:

yes indeed, those are well known pieces towards me and perfectly legit (very nice worn unmarked BSW badge) , where did they come from again ???

Cordial greetings,

[Guest WAR LORD]

Here is another glider pilots badge.

[Stijn David]

Hello,

And here is the close up from the picture of a glider pilot whil in tunesia (end of 1942). The picture is of a rather bad quality. On his tunic we can recognize a cloth glider piltos badge wich is in my humble opinion also on tropical cloth. The colourdifference would be much larger when it would be a normal blue-grey coloured cloth badge.

Cordial greetings

[PKeating]

Could we see the whole picture? I agree that under normal circumstances, the colour difference would be much more contrasted - as in the attached photo of two Fallschirm-Propaganda-Kompanie men in Marseilles in 1943 - but given the quality of the print, the lighting, the possibility that the tunic and the wool backing could be sun and/or laundry-bleached, I would treat this image with a certain amount of caution. The edges of the badge in your photo appear close-cropped but the inner fields are certainly of a darker shade than the surrounding tan cotton drill fabric. Darker cotton? Maybe. But it could be a trick of the light or just the result of fading of the print.

Many people were caught out with the high quality Parachutist Badges on tan backing. I am not suggesting that it is not possible and nor am I stating with certainty that Chris's tan-backed badge is postwar but I tend to be cautious, perhaps excessively so. The next time I visit the ECPA-D in Paris, I will scour their Mediterranean-related albums to see if there are any photos showing tan-backed badges.

PK

Edited November 5, 2005 by PKeating

[Stijn David]

Hello Prosper,

Sure, here it is. I do follow your caution and in the meantime i think we will have to do it with this picture untill new evidence pops up.

Cordial greetings,

[Guest WAR LORD]

Just as an aside here is another badge in tan, equally rare. The badges are from a rather old collection

[Guest WAR LORD]

the revers