Serbia Serbia - Original Chetnik items

[andrejm75]

Yeah,my thoughts exactly, thanks

[paja]

We know that there is huge amount of pretty obvious replicas of that badge. It is true that they can now be found more easily but whether some of them are very good fakes or not I also can't tell.

Apart from that example other badges that are suppose to be very rare are now appearing in larger quantities to be more precise Ravna gora and the one with crossed revolver and dagger.

When it comes to Ravna gora badge I noticed one US seller sold I think 4 on ebay in the last year, pretty close numbering, most of them described as "unused".

[Lightfoot]

Pajo, I bought one of those Ravna Gora badges from the american guy and they are good. The american got all those badges from a widow, her husband was an officer in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. It seemed that that officer was one of the people that was asigned to give those badges to the chetnik survivors. Because of that all the numbers match numerical.

[andrejm75]

Yes the one with crossed revolver and dagger is quite rare, but again it has resurfaced on bay three times in the past few months...as for those Ravna Gora badges I heard the same thing as Lightfoot...they appear legit

[Lightfoot]

Regarding the revolver and the dagger badge. Also some of them are original and some are fakes. Be aware! On the backside you see that these badges are made of two pieces. There are some that you can see as they are newly mended, like repaired. My theory is that these aren't original. Because there are a lot "mended" :)

[paja]

Pajo, I bought one of those Ravna Gora badges from the american guy and they are good. The american got all those badges from a widow, her husband was an officer in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. It seemed that that officer was one of the people that was asigned to give those badges to the chetnik survivors. Because of that all the numbers match numerical.

Thanks for explanation. Just as with those other two badges that one was a bit suspicious (if I may use that term) not because of it's quality but quantity, especially considering the fact that they came from the same seller. But if you say they are OK, I have no reason to think they're not.

What do you think about this one?

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-84925400-1418389262.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-08452900-1418389260.jpg

I never saw this one before but on the other hand I'm not really focused on Četnik related militaria...

[Lightfoot]

I think that it is a Ravna Gora breast badge, usually worn by chetnik higher officers. None is identically, primitive made probably on field of aluminum material. Sometimes they took material from aluminum field bottles.

[paja]

Regarding the revolver and the dagger badge. Also some of them are original and some are fakes. Be aware! On the backside you see that these badges are made of two pieces. There are some that you can see as they are newly mended, like repaired. My theory is that these aren't original. Because there are a lot "mended"

I think I remember seeing one that looked like it was soldered on the back side, but to be honest I thought that the badge was original but repaired.

One more thing, is it known which workshops were involved in production of these badges? Apart from Kovnica AD Beograd (Ковница АД Београд) I think I saw examples with M. Goldštajn Beograd (М. Голдштајн Београд) inscription on the back side but I'm not completely sure.

[Lightfoot]

Kovnica Beograd is the most common and I think that they made the ww2 versions of this badge. Then we have the pre ww1 badges that are a bit different and without hallmark of makers. The Goldstein badges I am not sure about because they have just been seen recently. Have seen 3 of them the last couple of months, so that's strange too. A couple of years ago the prices for these badges were over 1000 euros but now they sell them for about 300 euros because of the quantity. This is worrying, I collect these badges but I won't buy any because of that.

[paja]

Again thanks! I agree about the other part of your reply. Every time something like that happens I feel the same way, and I am very sceptical when explanations that someone found a hidden stash are used.

[Lightfoot]

Yes hidden stash/attic/basement are common and popular hehe.

[paja]

Few photos for you Rašić(Rasic).Most General Mihailovic fighters on those photos have same and/or very similar bagde as your granpa.

First photo is particularly interesting to me. That's 2nd lieutenant of Četnik (Assault) units of the regular Yugoslav army. These special units were formed in 1940 with purpose to fight behind the enemy lines. Their members wore uniforms that were different from the rest of the army (apart from mountain troops - they wore similar uniform). On the photo we can see some elements of it, first blouse with "visible" buttons (there were 6 of them), collar wasn't raised and there were skulls with crossed bones on it, soft šajkača with regular M1939 cap emblem. Their waffenfarbe was black, same as for artillery. I think someone already wrote about this in other topic.

Edited December 12, 2014 by paja

[Emanuel]

G'day everyone...just a question about this little beauty- I've been searching for one (to no avail. ) for years, but recently there has been few poping up on ebay ( I believe 3 in a month from different sellers)

As far as I know these were official issue given to WW1 chetnik veterans between the wars and then used in WW2.

Considering I have been unable to locate one for years ( I looked believe me), and now all of a sudden there have been few for sale, I am a little hesitant to part with my hard earned...couldthere be a batch of fake ones on the market? Any ideas? Cheers

Unfortunatelly ,this badge is a Copy, and I am almost certain that even the RE-SELLER on Ebay doesn't even know it, so beware out there for such badges...

Good Copy, but Copy indeed, the actual SELLER that the guy bought from him for around 250 Euros, wisely stated that "I do not know if the badge is original or not" and when you hear such things..... not to mention he is covered that he didn't really knew...

[Emanuel]

We know that there is huge amount of pretty obvious replicas of that badge. It is true that they can now be found more easily but whether some of them are very good fakes or not I also can't tell.

Apart from that example other badges that are suppose to be very rare are now appearing in larger quantities to be more precise Ravna gora and the one with crossed revolver and dagger.

When it comes to Ravna gora badge I noticed one US seller sold I think 4 on ebay in the last year, pretty close numbering, most of them described as "unused".G

Greetings Pajo my friend,

That was the famous "Georgetown Hoard", the guy sold around 5 Ravna Gora triangle badges, all Full original and in Mint condition.

Number 003601 achieved the record sale of $1.494 dollars, a sum extraordinary for that badge,but there were some hard bettors and the price went high up.

I reckon that the story is right, I think simply that they guy that owned them, was at the camp at that time and he just grab a few from the Box, thus the close numbering and the totally Mint condition, simply as that I guess...

More rare than this rare badge thought is the ones with the LATINIC P for the initial letter of King Peter II and not the Cyrillic one, awarded to the few Bosnian Chetnics.

But I doubt you will find around one in the near future....

Here is a nice example stucked on a .....lighter, great Military Art set I suppose

Edited December 12, 2014 by Emanuel

[andrejm75]

I think the problem with kokarde is the fact they were manufactured in so many different designs- official and unofficial.

On the other hand, there are thousands out there for sale- ebay and other sites. Considering that after the WW2 being in posession of one of those could get you hefty jail term (or worse) I have always been very sceptical of the ammount that resurfaced in the past ten years.

[paja]

Greetings Pajo my friend,

That was the famous "Georgetown Hoard", the guy sold around 5 Ravna Gora triangle badges, all Full original and in Mint condition.

Number 003601 achieved the record sale of $1.494 dollars, a sum extraordinary for that badge,but there were some hard bettors and the price went high up.

I reckon that the story is right, I think simply that they guy that owned them, was at the camp at that time and he just grab a few from the Box, thus the close numbering and the totally Mint condition, simply as that I guess...

More rare than this rare badge thought is the ones with the LATINIC P for the initial letter of King Peter II and not the Cyrillic one, awarded to the few Bosnian Chetnics.

But I doubt you will find around one in the near future....

Here is a nice example stucked on a .....lighter, great Military Art set I suppose

Greetings Emanuel, good to hear from you

Thanks for shedding some light on this matter. chetnik1942 posted photos of the badge with number 003601 in this topic almost three years ago: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/31679-serbia-original-chetnik-items/?p=486980

The last one I saw (from the same seller) got sold couple of weeks ago. That was the third one I noticed, all three were in 0041XX range, so he's been selling them for quite some time now and he had examples that were not so close (3601 - 41XX).

To be honest I don't remember seeing that PII variant before, thanks for sharing interesting photo!

If you have more photos of good fakes I would be grateful if you could post them here.

Edited December 13, 2014 by paja

[Lightfoot]

[Lightfoot]

English WWII uniform as the one General Mihailovich had. Artillery officers cap (Shajkacha) with an artillery officers cap badge from Kingdom of Yugoslavia period (smaller shajkacha model). Chetnik dagger (kama), English belt and shoulder bag. Pistol holser for belgian FN Browning model 1922. Officer´s sleave patch. Chetnik pistol & dagger breast badge, Chetnik "Ravna Gora" breast badge. Kingdom of Yugoslavia binoculars "oficirska zadruga" written on them.

[paja]

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.
Here's one of those revolver&dagger badges with Goldštajn (Голдштајн) inscription.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-19748000-1418745921.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-45623000-1418745927.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-49635500-1418745924.jpg

[paja]

Back side.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-94024000-1418745987.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-78920700-1418745991.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-48564400-1418745997.jpg

What do you think of it?

[Lightfoot]

It looks good if you look at it. The negative thing is that the last 2-3 badges that I have seen has been Goldstein. Before that I have never seen this producer. Hard to say my friend.

[paja]

Thanks, photos are not excellent, but still can't see anything wrong with it. Perhaps Emanuel knows more about them

By the way I've seen badges of the Association of officers in reserve and warriors made by the same producer, of course that doesn't prove anything.

[Lightfoot]

Have never seen that producer of those badges of the Association of officers in reserve and warriors. Would be nice seeing some pics.

[paja]

Here are two examples, I think that the photos are from various auction sites...

These are actually miniatures.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-86658200-1418762664.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-60966900-1418762667.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-98479100-1418762668.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-20595000-1418762670.jpg

[Lightfoot]

A chetnik dagger (kama), have the theory that this dagger was used by the komite in the balkan wars inspite of the 1941 that maybe came later, there is also an inscription Serbia Krushevac. Have been told that there were a komite school in Krushevac. If the man was a young boy in the balkanwars he may have been in WWII too or if the dagger were heritaged by another familymember. Because the handle is typically osmanian style and old. Beware there is a lot of fakes of chetnik daggers too. There is a very good maker in Serbia that makes "old" daggers. But this was bought in Austria.