Republic of Ireland easter rising medals

[Megan]

Thanks - it's what I thought but having people with a particular interest in the faking of this specific medal I was going to take the opportunity to ask :-)

[irishmedals]

Thanks - it's what I thought but having people with a particular interest in the faking of this specific medal I was going to take the opportunity to ask :-)

Megan,

The medals look in excellent condition, especially the ribbon and they do look the genuine items.

www.irishmedals.com

[pet]

Megan,

The medals look in excellent condition, especially the ribbon and they do look the genuine items.

www.irishmedals.com

hi irishmedals im sorry i was slow to your reply but these medals look ok but if your going to buy make sure you will get money back if not the real thing as its nice to keep yourself covered,i looked at your site it really looks good the way you have put it together,goodluk,pet.

[Megan]

Thank you Pet - I do not actually collect medals only information & pictures, and the good folks at Liverpool Medals let me use images from their catalogue... but I don't want to display fakes if I can help it!!

[pet]

Thank you Pet - I do not actually collect medals only information & pictures, and the good folks at Liverpool Medals let me use images from their catalogue... but I don't want to display fakes if I can help it!!

ok its good to see you enjoy other aspects of the hobby ,anytime you need help just mail me im always willing to help people like myself,thanks for the reply.

[mise belfast]

yes my good man there is guy in belfast who would have about 3 original medals and he using these to cast from and he is also using a lazer engraver also he has a gold smelt to make the cumm na bawn brooches and hes doing the tunic buttons,this same guy has had a merky past for selling faked goods hes even made newspaper headlines for this sort of behaviour but back to our topic hes selling the easter rising ,black n tan ,medals,broochs,you name it this guy can do it the main thing is for ex, theres an easter rising medal he looks to the records gets a recipitant details then he gets to work engraving the rising medal and a black n tan medal then sells them as a pair most of his buyers are from usa as ive been tracking his ebay aliases but in belfast ordinary people are buying one medal so as to say they have a piece of there history but the ordinary guy does not know whats right or wrong in these medals unfortuniately.i contacted a ebay seller who was selling a black n tan medal i asked him does he know anything about these medal ,his reply was no i said to him how do you know this is real he says he bought the medal of the guy i have described above and better than that he self appointed himself as an expert on easter rising items,now thats the way the situation is in belfast in northern ireland its rotten to the core with this faked stuff.i myself am a medal collector 15 years now im a member of a medal collecting club in lisburn and we are trying to isolate this guy thats why most of his items are going over seas to america or england as we advised most collectors about this particular guy,if you need more clarification do not hesitate contact me im always willing to help my fellow collector.

Hi i read with great interest your forum explaining about fakes in belfast,firstly ive collected irish medals for all my life from when i inherited my grandfathers collection at the tender age of 12. i continued on since..im interested in this gent in belfast you speak of..i am also stunned to hear so much advice given on this site, some reasonable and some so crazy it makes me laugh..some of it is down right scare mongering to be honest...most copies ive seen have been that riduculous you would be a fool to buy it...i find that i have met so called medal experts who rubbish medals because they cant afford to buy them. so if they cant buy it or i dont offer it for a give away price it fake!!! i dont congragate in "clicks" like these people do it makes me not want to join medal clubs etc. because alot of the so called experts dont have a clue. i bought most of my collection when they were out there and no hype.ive photos with the reciepients wearing the medals etc. one collector (i use the word loosely) said i had a copy..but then retracted his statement when i showed paper work and photos of the man wearing it!!!! but hey maybe the old photo with staining and pass book was fake to..yeah right!!!. i am from belfast and i have given advice freely on my knowledge of this subject and i find its a lot of people from the south of ireland faking badges etc. this makes my medals all the more special ans coveted by twisted people only interested in making a buck... you need to see and feel a medal,not from a photograph..photos of a medal can decieve...your eyes cannot unless blinded with GREED. please if you want to buy a medal get it checked a second opinion is good..dont jump and dont believe all the jargon of late....laser engraved items??? laser engraved shows signs of burning heat under an eye glass...etc.. "pick engraving" is an age old art any samples ive seen are like this done by hand and very rough and nobbly to the touch...laser engraving is smooth as a babys bum....so lets get it right gents...as for some man with a smelting pot stuff, im not aware of this but i will say this YOU CANT CAST A 1916 MEDAL TODAY AND IT LOOK PERFECT.1916 and black and tan medals were made by numerous companies in england and there are some different colours and indeed slight differences in the position of the pin,this can also tell you where it was made etc. it is down to the disc itself and this will give the game away instantly..even these so called austrailian copies that are supposed to be great are tragic. i spot them a mile away..but then again ive been doing this for thirty years!!!! experience is something you cant buy...so if in doubt dont buy..it is usually cheaper!!!!!!!

[Ulsterman]

Ahhhh-this whole thread brings back happy memories, mostly of my In-Laws' house at Christmas and debates about Presbyterian church politics.

There are a number of Irish medal collectors here who really, (Really!) know their stuff.

I would very much welcome information regarding the following;

1. The "Belfast fakes" currently being made and/or sold (size, weight,color, who is making them etc.) and

2. The typology of the "Tan war" medals.

Ta-

[mise belfast]

Ahhhh-this whole thread brings back happy memories, mostly of my In-Laws' house at Christmas and debates about Presbyterian church politics.

There are a number of Irish medal collectors here who really, (Really!) know their stuff.

I would very much welcome information regarding the following;

1. The "Belfast fakes" currently being made and/or sold (size, weight,color, who is making them etc.) and

2. The typology of the "Tan war" medals.

Ta-

hi i said in my quote the colours do vary..weights for the 16 medals range from 28 -34 grammes..very heavy for its size due to the unique material used in its manufacture...copies are very light in comparison...centre lines are a dead give away,and as for filing a cantre line away..you cant bluff the weight..... :banger:

[irishmedals]

1916 and black and tan medals were made by numerous companies in england and there are some different colours and indeed slight differences in the position of the pin,this can also tell you where it was made etc.

If you are refering to original 1916 and War of Independence medals then i am afraid your information is incorrect. Those medals were not made in England but by the Jewelry & Metal Manufactoring Company and later by Quinn & Company both Dublin based makers. Indeed there were 10 batches of War of Independence medals made between 1941 and 1957 and 3 batches of 1916 medals made between 1941 and 1952 - all this information readily available online through various Oireachtas, D?il, Seanad, and Parliamentary Committee debates.

The postumously awarded medals do have very smooth engraving simlair to lazer engraving. If you ever get hold of one you'll know what people are trying to say. Officially awarded postumous medals can be so easily faked by getting an original medal and lazer engraving it with a name and number in the style and font used. It is this false engraving and turning regular medals into postumous medals that worries most collectors i know, the value goes up massively.

I do appreciate your comment on the fake medals, perhaps it is being blown it out of proportion. I also agree that the Australian copies are well.....crap at the very least.

Welcome to the board and try and post a few pics of some of your medals.

[mise belfast]

If you are refering to original 1916 and War of Independence medals then i am afraid your information is incorrect. Those medals were not made in England but by the Jewelry & Metal Manufactoring Company and later by Quinn & Company both Dublin based makers. Indeed there were 10 batches of War of Independence medals made between 1941 and 1957 and 3 batches of 1916 medals made between 1941 and 1952 - all this information readily available online through various Oireachtas, D?il, Seanad, and Parliamentary Committee debates.

The postumously awarded medals do have very smooth engraving simlair to lazer engraving. If you ever get hold of one you'll know what people are trying to say. Officially awarded postumous medals can be so easily faked by getting an original medal and lazer engraving it with a name and number in the style and font used. It is this false engraving and turning regular medals into postumous medals that worries most collectors i know, the value goes up massively.

I do appreciate your comment on the fake medals, perhaps it is being blown it out of proportion. I also agree that the Australian copies are well.....crap at the very least.

Welcome to the board and try and post a few pics of some of your medals.

YES I MISTAKENLY TYPED ENGLAND INSTEAD OR IRELAND..QUINN AND CO AS YOU SAY,BUT THERE IS SOME VARIOUS DIFFERENT PIN POSITIONS ON THE CLASPS,SOME EARLY AND SOME LATER,I FIND THE WIDE TYPE TO BE EARLY AND THE CLOSER PIN CLASP TO BE LATTER...GLAD TO BE WARMLY WELCOMED TO THE BOARD THANKS!!!!

[pet]

Hi i read with great interest your forum explaining about fakes in belfast,firstly ive collected irish medals for all my life from when i inherited my grandfathers collection at the tender age of 12. i continued on since..im interested in this gent in belfast you speak of..i am also stunned to hear so much advice given on this site, some reasonable and some so crazy it makes me laugh..some of it is down right scare mongering to be honest...most copies ive seen have been that riduculous you would be a fool to buy it...i find that i have met so called medal experts who rubbish medals because they cant afford to buy them. so if they cant buy it or i dont offer it for a give away price it fake!!! i dont congragate in "clicks" like these people do it makes me not want to join medal clubs etc. because alot of the so called experts dont have a clue. i bought most of my collection when they were out there and no hype.ive photos with the reciepients wearing the medals etc. one collector (i use the word loosely) said i had a copy..but then retracted his statement when i showed paper work and photos of the man wearing it!!!! but hey maybe the old photo with staining and pass book was fake to..yeah right!!!. i am from belfast and i have given advice freely on my knowledge of this subject and i find its a lot of people from the south of ireland faking badges etc. this makes my medals all the more special ans coveted by twisted people only interested in making a buck... you need to see and feel a medal,not from a photograph..photos of a medal can decieve...your eyes cannot unless blinded with GREED. please if you want to buy a medal get it checked a second opinion is good..dont jump and dont believe all the jargon of late....laser engraved items??? laser engraved shows signs of burning heat under an eye glass...etc.. "pick engraving" is an age old art any samples ive seen are like this done by hand and very rough and nobbly to the touch...laser engraving is smooth as a babys bum....so lets get it right gents...as for some man with a smelting pot stuff, im not aware of this but i will say this YOU CANT CAST A 1916 MEDAL TODAY AND IT LOOK PERFECT.1916 and black and tan medals were made by numerous companies in england and there are some different colours and indeed slight differences in the position of the pin,this can also tell you where it was made etc. it is down to the disc itself and this will give the game away instantly..even these so called austrailian copies that are supposed to be great are tragic. i spot them a mile away..but then again ive been doing this for thirty years!!!! experience is something you cant buy...so if in doubt dont buy..it is usually cheaper!!!!!!!

i read what you had to say your intitled to your say but im secetary of a medal club in lisburn city and they are great lads you seem to fear medal clubs and there members why,why,easter rising ,black n tan ,1921/1971 fakes are coming from a guy in belfast infact everyone in our club are aware of these belfast fakes ,there is absolutley no fakes coming from dublin dealers,or collectors.as they are people like ourselves i recognise yur wording ive seen it before and the guy who said your medal was fake name him if your so sure hes wrong,as maybe we can help him as its great to help the new man collector ,thats why im on this forum so im advising you as a fellow collector that the fakes are from belfast and not from dublin.also im very aware of the guy in belfast with the gold smelter and his carry on which does exist im on this forum to tell every collector home and abroad never never buy any easter rising,black n tan,medals from anyone on ebay from northern ireland its better to be safe than sorry after you have spent thousands to realise you have been conned by this cowboy as this guy changes his seller names on ebay all the time but i know him and his other names thats what a medal club is for to help when this guy is on ebay.as we alert each other.i hope this helps u,pet.

[irish collector]

Hello, Pet

I was reading your post and you said "That the british Army stabbed your great aunt in the back with bayonet please could you forward me her name and where it happened as i have never heard of this happening during the 1920's to any women, i find it very hard to believe that a british soldier would do this to a defenseless women.

-The collector

Limerick

[pet]

Hello, Pet

I was reading your post and you said "That the british Army stabbed your great aunt in the back with bayonet please could you forward me her name and where it happened as i have never heard of this happening during the 1920's to any women, i find it very hard to believe that a british soldier would do this to a defenseless women.

-The collector

Limerick

my dear friend have you ever read about the ric /black n tan death squads in belfast in the twenties if they shot defenceless men in croake park what would they not do ,i cannot name my relatives as its not for me to do that as my mother is still alive and she would no like to see a relative name being used in vain to justify a medal conman to make a mockery of a dead person to get an even score over medals so my goodman i have to refuse this nameing to you have you nothing to do than look for geave stones have respect for my dead relatives as i have the greatest respect for you.pet.

[mise belfast]

i read what you had to say your intitled to your say but im secetary of a medal club in lisburn city and they are great lads you seem to fear medal clubs and there members why,why,easter rising ,black n tan ,1921/1971 fakes are coming from a guy in belfast infact everyone in our club are aware of these belfast fakes ,there is absolutley no fakes coming from dublin dealers,or collectors.as they are people like ourselves i recognise yur wording ive seen it before and the guy who said your medal was fake name him if your so sure hes wrong,as maybe we can help him as its great to help the new man collector ,thats why im on this forum so im advising you as a fellow collector that the fakes are from belfast and not from dublin.also im very aware of the guy in belfast with the gold smelter and his carry on which does exist im on this forum to tell every collector home and abroad never never buy any easter rising,black n tan,medals from anyone on ebay from northern ireland its better to be safe than sorry after you have spent thousands to realise you have been conned by this cowboy as this guy changes his seller names on ebay all the time but i know him and his other names thats what a medal club is for to help when this guy is on ebay.as we alert each other.i hope this helps u,pet.

mmmmm. pet im not afraid or fear any medal club!!!! there is no way any man alive can copy ie copy "a good standard copy" of a black and tan or 1916 medal and i have made a few calls to my fellow collectors about this and they second my feelings on this.there are a few different types of Casting types,centrifugal and lost wax...either way they all would leave tell tale signs..as for medal clubs wot medal club? me and alot of my contacts havent heard of any lisburn medal club..so please enlighten us all..there are alot of people being offended by your remarks as you seem to tar collectors from belfast as a bunch of fakers!!! when we know for a fact most copies are from down south or as far as you have reported austrailia...so if there IS a club that you are a part of let everyone know where and when its held so they can endulge themselves in your vast knowledge you state you have!!! :shame:

[pet]

my dear friend have you ever read about the ric /black n tan death squads in belfast in the twenties if they shot defenceless men in croake park what would they not do ,i cannot name my relatives as its not for me to do that as my mother is still alive and she would no like to see a relative name being used in vain to justify a medal conman to make a mockery of a dead person to get an even score over medals so my goodman i have to refuse this nameing to you have you nothing to do than look for geave stones have respect for my dead relatives as i have the greatest respect for you.pet.ive been contacted by the chairman of the lisburn city medal club as hes monituring the forum and he says its in my best interest not to give my personal detail "name"as many other things could become of this incase a medal faker is reading he might name medals to my surname,pet

[Ed_Haynes]

Can we please keep politics and personal attacks out of this. Otherwise this thread may go almost as wrong as previous efforts at serious discussion did.

[pet]

Can we please keep politics and personal attacks out of this. Otherwise this thread may go almost as wrong as previous efforts at serious discussion did.

thanks edd i admire your courage as the discussion was going the wrong road and i told the forum that i cannot name dead relatives im on this site to help medal collectors not to buy fakes not to indulge in petty scoring,thanks edd for straigthing a road that was starting to go winding,well done edd youve got courage,pet.

[mise belfast]

Can we please keep politics and personal attacks out of this. Otherwise this thread may go almost as wrong as previous efforts at serious discussion did.

i see lots of stories and no facts from pet!!! I read and study all the time,and ive never heard of such a stabbing!!! maybe it makes for good story telling in THE LISBURN MEDAL CLUB.....wherever that is? :unsure:

[pet]

mmmmm. pet im not afraid or fear any medal club!!!! there is no way any man alive can copy ie copy "a good standard copy" of a black and tan or 1916 medal and i have made a few calls to my fellow collectors about this and they second my feelings on this.there are a few different types of Casting types,centrifugal and lost wax...either way they all would leave tell tale signs..as for medal clubs wot medal club? me and alot of my contacts havent heard of any lisburn medal club..so please enlighten us all..there are alot of people being offended by your remarks as you seem to tar collectors from belfast as a bunch of fakers!!! when we know for a fact most copies are from down south or as far as you have reported austrailia...so if there IS a club that you are a part of let everyone know where and when its held so they can endulge themselves in your vast knowledge you state you have!!!

hi mise ive never mentioned australia in my quotes and the medal club meets every last tuesday of the month and my uncle billy is chairman and hes collecting medals for over 35 years and he knows alot and hes a nice gentle man who would wlcome you,and i find your forum writings offensive against me as im only trying to help people from being conned you seem to be attacking everything i write if i help one person from buying a fake medal in my lifetime on this forum then im happy,also im contacting the forum about your comments,pet

[pet]

i see lots of stories and no facts from pet!!! I read and study all the time,and ive never heard of such a stabbing!!! maybe it makes for good story telling in THE LISBURN MEDAL CLUB.....wherever that is?

well that says it all your just here to attack me on the forum why,im only here to stop people being conned by the belfast faker who has belt buckles trinket boxes medals cummnabawn brooches to irish voulnteers these are all faked by the belfast guy

and paper work as well.would you ;like to see a fellow collector like ourselves buy these come on man im here to help you aswell not to knock you as you are doing to me im starting to wonder why???

[mise belfast]

hi mise ive never mentioned australia in my quotes and the medal club meets every last tuesday of the month and my uncle billy is chairman and hes collecting medals for over 35 years and he knows alot and hes a nice gentle man who would wlcome you,and i find your forum writings offensive against me as im only trying to help people from being conned you seem to be attacking everything i write if i help one person from buying a fake medal in my lifetime on this forum then im happy,also im contacting the forum about your comments,pet

firstly pet im not attacking no one,and i too am in favour of helping people not being conned,i have started my two nephews up by giving two medals to them from my collection,its so refreshing to hear them talk about this great hobby,but i am against the statements of belfast being full of fakers etc..they are now collectors of the future and it annoys me for you to make remarks like this...does this mean my two nephews are now fakers?? surely not because they are from belfast!!! i have indeed got belfast battalion medals in my collection left to me,and they are rare if impossible to find today. when it boils down to it im up for helping anyone,but when im from belfast and un fare comments about faking and dont buy medals from belfast collectors are stated on this board,yes then i have a bee in my bonnet...so if my nephew wanted to sell his medal 30 years from now for example id like to think he will recieve the true value of it,and not have to face silly remarks about so called fakes..not that he wants to sell,as i have made hime promise not to..i collect i do not sell as a rule although if i had a double i want to make sure i get wot its worth when bartering with fellow collectors...so the fake quotes are wearing a tad thin mate!!!!

[mise belfast]

well that says it all your just here to attack me on the forum why,im only here to stop people being conned by the belfast faker who has belt buckles trinket boxes medals cummnabawn brooches to irish voulnteers these are all faked by the belfast guy

and paper work as well.would you ;like to see a fellow collector like ourselves buy these come on man im here to help you aswell not to knock you as you are doing to me im starting to wonder why???

Why???? read below why?? :angry:

[pet]

firstly pet im not attacking no one,and i too am in favour of helping people not being conned,i have started my two nephews up by giving two medals to them from my collection,its so refreshing to hear them talk about this great hobby,but i am against the statements of belfast being full of fakers etc..they are now collectors of the future and it annoys me for you to make remarks like this...does this mean my two nephews are now fakers?? surely not because they are from belfast!!! i have indeed got belfast battalion medals in my collection left to me,and they are rare if impossible to find today. when it boils down to it im up for helping anyone,but when im from belfast and un fare comments about faking and dont buy medals from belfast collectors are stated on this board,yes then i have a bee in my bonnet...so if my nephew wanted to sell his medal 30 years from now for example id like to think he will recieve the true value of it,and not have to face silly remarks about so called fakes..not that he wants to sell,as i have made hime promise not to..i collect i do not sell as a rule although if i had a double i want to make sure i get wot its worth when bartering with fellow collectors...so the fake quotes are wearing a tad thin mate!!!!

you are attacking me also you do what you want to do you offended me n my dead relatives that it was a story told in the medal club ive never offended your dead relatives and i nevr would now im a christian man im not goin to your level of pettyness you go on writing your little point scoring game as im an adult trying to help people so you just go on writing leave my relatives out of this and all medal collectors never buy irish medals from northern ireland considering the esater rising as they are fakd heavily in belfast.im from belfast and it breaks my heart to say this i also have a nice collection of medals and its my duty to tell collectors about the belfast faker even though this may AFFECT MY COLLECTION AS LONG AS I KNOW WHAT I HAVE AND THAT NO ONE GETS CONNED BY THIS BELFAST FAKER.PET.

[mise belfast]

you are attacking me also you do what you want to do you offended me n my dead relatives that it was a story told in the medal club ive never offended your dead relatives and i nevr would now im a christian man im not goin to your level of pettyness you go on writing your little point scoring game as im an adult trying to help people so you just go on writing leave my relatives out of this and all medal collectors never buy irish medals from northern ireland considering the esater rising as they are fakd heavily in belfast.im from belfast and it breaks my heart to say this i also have a nice collection of medals and its my duty to tell collectors about the belfast faker even though this may AFFECT MY COLLECTION AS LONG AS I KNOW WHAT I HAVE AND THAT NO ONE GETS CONNED BY THIS BELFAST FAKER.PET.

i have never slagged off your relatives i stated clearly that i never heard of such an incident and also a limerick collector said he hadnt heard of the event either!!! so we are clearly ststing that we never heard of such an event!!! im a american by birth and it has nothing to do with colour race religon so what is you being a christian got to do with it???? im an adult showing my kids and my nephews the way in collecting...i even find it so strange you stating belfast belfast belfast....mate you break your own heart no one here is doing it!!!! :shame:

[mise belfast]

i have never slagged off your relatives i stated clearly that i never heard of such an incident and also a limerick collector said he hadnt heard of the event either!!! so we are clearly ststing that we never heard of such an event!!! im a american by birth and it has nothing to do with colour race religon so what is you being a christian got to do with it???? im an adult showing my kids and my nephews the way in collecting...i even find it so strange you stating belfast belfast belfast....mate you break your own heart no one here is doing it!!!!

IS THERE ANY ONE READING THIS HAVE A PICTURE OF THESE FAKES TO POST ON SO WE CAN HAVE A GOOD LOOK AT IT,ID LOVE TO SEE ONE OF THESE PLEASE.IT WOULD BE OF GREAT HELP TO PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO SEE THESE IN THE FLESH???PET CLAIMS A MEMBER OF HIS CLUB WAS CONNED SO COULD THIS MAN PLEASE HELP BY POSTING A PHOTO OF HIS FAKE MEDAL,ID LOVE TO SEE IT,SO PET ASK HIM TO POST IT ON THE BOARD,IM VERY CURIOUS AS TO SEE IT :o