New book on the Indian Army

[Sushil Talwar]

Dear All, In case of interest. Wishing each of you and your families a healthy, peaceful and happy christmas, and 2009. As ever, Sushil Talwar

UNITED SERVICE INSTITUTION OF INDIA

Founded: 1870

Centre for Armed Forces Historical Research

Rao Tula Ram Marg

Opposite Signals Enclave

Post Bag No. 8, Vasant Vihar PO

New Delhi - 110 057

Ashok Nath. Izzat - Historical Records and Iconography of Indian Cavalry Regiments 1750-2007. Centre for Armed Forces Historical Research, United Service Institution of India, New Delhi, 2008. 828 + xxi pp. (ISBN 978-81-902097-7-9), ? 85.00 / Rs. 6000.00

Packed with historical data assembled from a wide variety of sources, much of it previously unavailable, together with over 2000 images which have required years of in-depth research to assemble in the form of photographic images or meticulous line drawings, this ground-breaking book deals with every cavalry regiment known to have existed in the armed forces of India and Pakistan from 1750 up to 2007.

The author has concentrated on the complex lineages of the many regiments, the identification of their badges, ethnic compositions and battle honours. A comprehensive mass of information is arranged in an orderly manner for easy access under three sections covering the periods 1750 to 1921, 1921 to 1947 and 1947 to 2007.

Supplementary to this, but vital to an understanding of the subject, there are chapters that explore the evolution of the mounted arm on the Indian subcontinent, policies relating to ethnography and recruitment, the volunteer movement and the Auxiliary Force (India) Cavalry, and the forces of the Indian Princely States that were ultimately absorbed into the Indian Armoured Corps. A detailed bibliography is provided for further research.

This book will serve as an authoritative source for serious students of military history searching for a better understanding of the history and lineage of Indian and Pakistani cavalry regiments and how these entities functioned. It will also provide an indispensable tool for collectors of regimental insignia and military medals and a comprehensive guide to the identification and appreciation of badges, buttons and shoulder titles throughout the period.

Citations Received for the Book

?IZZAT is a remarkable achievement. Wonderfully organised and clearly presented, it is an exhaustive account of the cavalry regiments of the Indian Army, both before 1947 and since. The genealogy of each regiment, the fundamental reorganisations of 1921 and 1947, the battle honours and dress distinctions ? all are to be found here. This is an indispensable source of reference.?

Professor Hew Strachan

Chichele Professor of the History of War, Oxford University

?This magnum opus has been written by an acknowledged authority on the subject and will surely become the definitive work on the iconography and history of the cavalry regiments of the old Anglo-Indian Army. Also included is a comprehensive description of all the cavalry regiments of independent India and Pakistan and their fighting records. This well organised book reads easily and is packed with useful information ? including descriptions of many hitherto obscure units. Sources are well noted and provide numerous leads to further research. The illustrations of badges are legion and of excellent quality. Strongly recommended for the serious student of the Sub-continent?s military history.?

The Indian Military Historical Society, United Kingdom

?An outstanding and a pioneering work by Captain Ashok Nath on the Indian Cavalry Regiments from 1750-2007. This publication will go a long way in fulfilling an existing requirement of such a composition, nested in one place, which will be of much use to our regiments and also help researchers and scholars looking for reference material on the subject.?

Lt Gen B.M. Kapur, PVSM, AVSM

President, Indian Cavalry Officers Association

Orders may be send to the following email id. Method of payment will have to be by International Money Order. The cost of the book is GBP ? 85 / USD $ 125. Postage costs are GBP ? 21 / USD $ 31. The book weights a whopping 3 kilos and is lavishly produced, hardbound with gilded edges etc. Please write to: Rana T.S. Chhina

Sqn Ldr (Retd)

Secretary

Centre for Armed Forces Historical Research

United Service Institution of India

Rao Tula Ram Marg

Opposite Signals Enclave

Post Bag No. 8, Vasant Vihar PO

New Delhi ? 110 057

Email: cafhr@usiofindia.org

cafhr@rediffmail.com

[MajorBloodnok]

Hello Sushil,

thanks for your kind season's greetings and for recommending that great new publication which will be welcome by all Indian & Pakistani Army buffs.

Kind regards,

Mike

[Ulsterman]

$31 for mailing costs!!!

It must be massive. It appears well worth the money though. Hew Strachen is not lavish with praise like this very often.

I'm going to print this out and ask the wife for this book for Xmas.

[Riley1965]

This book sounds like a MUST have for any Indian Army Collectors. I, too, will have to ask for this for Christmas.

Doc

[Ed_Haynes]

$31 for mailing costs!!!

It must be massive. It appears well worth the money though. Hew Strachen is not lavish with praise like this very often.

I'm going to print this out and ask the wife for this book for Xmas.

It weighs in at 3 kg. Makes the new BB&M look like tiny.

[Sushil Talwar]

Gentlemen,

I assure you it will be a worthy collection to your library.

As ever

Sushil

[James Hoard]

Could someone perhaps post a few images of the book?

One sometimes has to be careful with Indian publications. More than once I have purchesed books to find on their arrival that the binding, cropping and printing standard resemble what can best be described as a "secondary wartime economy" publication.

This book costs the earth and one certainly would not like to end up with the a similar result.

Many thanks and best wishes

James Hoard

[Sushil Talwar]

James,

Believe me the book is just fine in terms of the content, quality of print and the binding. This was one of the things the USI was particulat about.

Rgds

Sushil

[James Hoard]

James,

Believe me the book is just fine in terms of the content, quality of print and the binding. This was one of the things the USI was particulat about.

Rgds

Sushil

Thanks, but having been cought out before I would still prefer to see some pictures for myself first.

If you do not have any, is there any link to the publishers or a USI website which has some images for view?

Cheers,

James

[Sushil Talwar]

James,

Why don't you send a mail to the Sqn Ldr at the USI and ask for the pictures/scans? I'm sure that will not be a problem for them.

Rgds

Sushil

[Vespasian]

Thanks, but having been cought out before I would still prefer to see some pictures for myself first.

If you do not have any, is there any link to the publishers or a USI website which has some images for view?

Cheers,

James

James

Don't know if you bought the book after all but like you I have a view on the quality of binding etc.. I obtained a copy when I was in India recently at 6000 rupees which given the exchange rate is around ?85. The book is excellent and the binding etc.. above the Indian average. However I have 4 pages which were overprinted rendering them unreadable. I have asked for replacement pages which I will have to paste in; surely something one should not have to do given the price. I think it is a fairly unique book and hence sort of worth the price. I do think think though it is overpriced. This print run is only 500 copies so being optimistic it could become a collectors item!!

Best Regards

Vespasian

[James Hoard]

Vespasian

Thank you for your kind post.

I have decided to put off my purchase until I have a chance to see a copy at the British Library and have a chance to go though it. Always best to thumb through a book before buying.

The book definetely sounds as if it may be over priced.

Cheers,

James

[Chris Boonzaier]

James,

maybe not... EUR95 seems to be an across the board price for a good militaria book. Most of the German ones are more in fact....

EUR95 was GBP60... now GBP85... In 2 months this book could cost GBP95, without the actual price of the book changing at all....

I think you are suffering from the Peso-ization of the pound... perception is products from overseas become more expensive... but actually it has more to do with the pound being worth less.

[Sushil Talwar]

Just recd this page from the author. FYI.

Rgds

Sushil

Errata

Page II line 34; for ?Centre of ?read ?Centre for?

? IX ? 18, for ?A rank is used? read ?A rank as used?

? ? ? 38, for ?as pan of ?read ?as part of ?

? 5 ? 24, for ?South Mahratta Horse? read ?Southern Mahratta Horse?

? 6 ? 7, for ?know as? read ?known as?

? 39 ? 33, for ?Bombay? read ?Poona?

? 52 ? 19, ditto as above

? 80 ? 24, for ?(See C1.15.02)? read ?(See C1.15.03)?

? 85 to image at bottom add the reference number ?C1.15.01?

? 104 line 12, for ?monogram BIC? read ?monogram SIC?

? 147 ? 17, for ?uring? read ?during?

? 151 line 1, under C1.26.13, for ?Officer?s? read ?Officers?

? 156 line 3, under C1.27.02, delete ?.? after ?It?

? 180 ? 27, for ?books^{6 ?} read ?books^5?

? 206 ? 1, for ?Officer?s? read ?Officers?

? 208 ? 4, for ?designation from 1950? read ?designation from 1956?

? 250 ? 4, after ?designation? add ?from 1950?

? 267 ? 6, for ?1957-59? read ?1857-59?

? 271 ? 4, for ?designation from 1950? read ?designation from 1956?

? 302 ? 10, for ?First Sikh War? read ?Second Sikh War?

? 323 f/n no. 6, read on following page 324

? 333-34 ?Mohomed Baksh?, ?Bakhsh? or ?Buksh?, refers to same person

? 334 line 22, insert a full stop after C1.54.11

? 354 line 24, for ?C1.55.20? read ?C1.55.25?

? 363 ? 30, for ?choose from? read ?choose to?

? 393 ? 21, for ?(see above)? read ?(see page 383)?

? 397 ? 15, for ?Shekhawat? read ?Shekhawati?

? 474 ? 11, for ?in returned? read ?it returned?

? 517 ? 18, for ?see page 797? read ?see page 798?

? 519 Erase row for the year 2004; 34 Lcrs raised in 1999, not 2004

? 534 line 2, under C3I.1.08, add ?(reduced scale)? after sabretache

? 576 ? 19, for ?14 (I) Armoured? read ?14th(I) Armoured?

? 585 ? 19-20, after ?Punjab 1965?, remove the italics

? 601 ? 3, for ?by the National Symbol?, read ?by the gauntlet?

? 601 C3I.29.01, correct image to have a gauntlet in place of Ashoka Lions

? 624 line 23, for ?means is Persian? read ?means Persian for?

? 694 bold heading for ?Independent Reconnaissance Squadrons?

? 696 f/n no. 1, for ?go the Pakistan Army? read ?go to the Pakistan Army?

? 720 ? 5, for ?pakistan? read ?Pakistan?

? 722 ? 1, for ?Officers?? read ?Officers?

? 746 f/n no. 1, delete ?an?

? 791 line 3, for ?Cachar and Sylhet read ?Sylhet and Cachar?

? 792 line 20, for ?above five units? read ?above units?

? 793 line 13, for ?above four units? read ?above units?

? 800 line 11, delete full stop after ?Colonel?

? 827 Indian Volunteers, Indian Defence Force and Auxiliary Force India mounted units from Assam Valley Light Horse to Chota Nagpur Regiment (pp. 792-797): add +1 to indexed page numbers of these units

[James Hoard]

James,

maybe not... EUR95 seems to be an across the board price for a good militaria book. Most of the German ones are more in fact....

EUR95 was GBP60... now GBP85... In 2 months this book could cost GBP95, without the actual price of the book changing at all....

I think you are suffering from the Peso-ization of the pound... perception is products from overseas become more expensive... but actually it has more to do with the pound being worth less.

The prices for German and European publications reflect the quality of the product. They are usually "top" notch in terms of printing, binding, paper quality and pictures. Even when they are printed in Italy, Turkey or Thailand they do not suffer in these aspects one bit.

I have never quite understood how a country like Thailand can produce such top quality books in what to them are totally foreign languages, but India cannot.

I received another Indian publication from Delhi yesterday. Again, there are places where the printing is ghosted, the paper quality is very poor, common words are not spelled properly and the binding is weak.

[Vespasian]

James,

maybe not... EUR95 seems to be an across the board price for a good militaria book. Most of the German ones are more in fact....

EUR95 was GBP60... now GBP85... In 2 months this book could cost GBP95, without the actual price of the book changing at all....

I think you are suffering from the Peso-ization of the pound... perception is products from overseas become more expensive... but actually it has more to do with the pound being worth less.

Chris

Actually I disagree. If you look at the inside back cover of the dustwrapper the price stated is 85 pounds sterling and has nothing to do with the exchange rate!

Vespasian

[Chris Boonzaier]

Maybe its just because GBP85 sounds so little nowdays when you live on Euro ;-)

[Vespasian]

Maybe its just because GBP85 sounds so little nowdays when you live on Euro ;-)

Que??

Not sure what your point is. the fact is that the publication of the book was planned and subsequently printed well before the weakening of the pound sterling. It was set at 85 pounds sterling which by any standards is not an insignificant amount for a book whichever way you look at it.

V

[Chris Boonzaier]

Que??

Not sure what your point is. the fact is that the publication of the book was planned and subsequently printed well before the weakening of the pound sterling. It was set at 85 pounds sterling which by any standards is not an insignificant amount for a book whichever way you look at it.

V

GBP85 is a joke... thats about EUR90.

The following book came out in probably the same amount in the print run in 1997. It cost about EUR30.

The quality is OK, nothing earth shattering. Still 8 days on auction and it is at EUR161.

http://cgi.ebay.fr/La-Medaille-Coloniale-d...%3A1|240%3A1318

Anyone who does not get this kind of book while its still on the shelves will be pretty sorry 10 years down the road.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Follow the thread above...... the book published in 1994 for about EUR30 went for EUR300...

A good reference book that is not reprinted writes its own cheque.

5 of these would be a good investment ;-)

[Ed_Haynes]

Well, after some delay (did the postal folks just not want to have to carry it around?) it is in hand. Well maybe not "in hand", "on desk". As others have observed, the first impression is that it is a BIG book. It makes the latest BB&M look almost tiny.

The second imnpression, I am sorry to say, is that the standards of production are indeed disappointing. Indian publishers can do better and this volume falls much below the standard even of recent USI-I publications which, though they were not done by established publishers, have been of uniform high quality; this book is not to that standard and this is sad. The quality of printing and paper is low, the binding I fear may not stand up to decades of frequent consultation (if you can lift the tome), and (and this may just be a personal kvetch) I find the guilding of the page edges and the flock of little page-marking ribbons to be something unprofessional, tacky, and pretentious.

However, we buy books for their contents, not their aesthetics. The contents are outstanding and first rate. While we may quibble about what has been included and what has been excluded (has anything been excluded?), what is clear is that Ashok has given us one of the true landmark books of recent years. Given the short print run, this book will, in a short time, become a collectible in its own right. The quality of the contents outweighs (no pun intended) the price and the quality issues. For anyone with any interest in the badges of the Indian cavalry, this is now sacred text; for those with less focused interests in the history of the Indian Army (from 1750 to 2007, so wider than just "British" interest), this is a "must have".

My two annas worth . . . .

Edited March 3, 2009 by Ed_Haynes

[James Hoard]

Alas, I already have a small collection of highly used Indian publications that are now little more than collections of pages, the bindings having fallen apart. So I shall have to forego the opportunity of adding another one to keep them company at ?85.00 a throw.

Cheers,

James

[Chris Boonzaier]

At the risk of flogging a dead horse...

2nd one... already at EUR143...

http://cgi.ebay.fr/Livre-la-medaille-colon...%3A1|240%3A1318

Thats reference for you....

[Chris Boonzaier]

Well, that one went for just EUR161...

But check this out...

http://cgi.ebay.fr/LA-MEDAILLE-COLONIALE-d...%3A1|240%3A1318

[nwfrontier]

Folks,

I did purchace this book when it came out,

It is the largets book I have ever bought but I feel it was worth it - an excellent tome and although Ed was not happy with the binding I think it's okay.

Just breaks your back getting it off the shelf!

Matthew

Edited July 23, 2009 by nwfrontier