Mike Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 Hi Gents, Tonight I've been going through some of my older cases and have been running into a few interesting items I thought I'd share with you.This is an Armband from the Arrow Cross (the Hungarian version of the NSDAP) After Admiral Horthy abdicated the Throne in 44 ( with a nudge from Adolph) ..the Arrow Cross took control . As soon as Horthy was out ..many were rounded up by the "Death Squads" . It's a very rare Brassard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 27, 2005 Author Share Posted November 27, 2005 The Ink Stamp has the Hungarian Crown and Tri Colors ..it's interesting that the Hungarian Fascists still retained the symbol of the Crown on items ..even on the "Levente" Youth crest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 27, 2005 Author Share Posted November 27, 2005 #3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luftwaffe Rules Posted November 27, 2005 Share Posted November 27, 2005 That is a very very very nice and unusual piece sir! I have never seen anything like it! Thanks for posting a bit of its history with the pics also! Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted November 27, 2005 Author Share Posted November 27, 2005 That is a very very very nice and unusual piece sir! I have never seen anything like it! Thanks for posting a bit of its history with the pics also! JonThanks Jon, glad you liked it ..the only picture I've ever found of it was in the Bender series "Foreign Legions of the Third Reich" Vol3.There was so much going on in Hungary between 44 & 45 but unf, we don't hear that much about it here. And much of the History that has been published ...is wrong. It's a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 Hi,this is indeed a very nice piece... but why IS the crown there?And how does one know if such a thing is kosher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Does anyone have a pic of one of these being worn? Must have looked rather dramatic on the uniform.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Gents,It would be interesting to see one of these worn on a uniform. I am also curious as to why the crown is present on an Arrow Cross arm band. Here is a picture of the Arrow Cross insignia arm band being worn by Hungarian Officers shortly after the success of Operation MARGARETHE.Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 Here's a picture from page 105 of Benders "Foreign Legions of the Third Reich" Vol 3 ..it shows a close up of it being worn on Civilian Clothes ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 A pity they cropped the photo so tightly.... :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 I remember seeing the full picture ..someplace ...I'll snoop around for it.Anyway ...According to the same book (page 101) The Hungarians considered the Swastika a "Foreign Importation"... and adopted the Sun Wheel version (almost closed).St. Stephens Crown however was always considered to be a symbol of Hungary .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Mike,Thanks for posting the pages from Bender's book. I am due for a visit to "The House Of Terror" on Andrasi ut and will move that up on my list of things to do soon. Since this address, 60 Andrasi, was the headquarters of the Arrow Cross before it became the headquarters of the AVH they might have some pictures showing this armband in wear.Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 I'd also be very interested in any pictures you could find ..thanks Gordon. My armband was bought from a family in Budapest about 9 or 10 years ago ...made its way to Canada and then I bought it. I've never seen another example anywhere , except in that fuzzy Bender Picture.If they were faking them ...we'd have seen them flooding the market by now and "Schnyders Treasures" would have had them for sure . It doesn't look like a mass produced or a one piece silk-screened item . This is multi piece stitched and took some time to make. I'd imagine that they're pretty rare because I'm sure that when the Soviets arrived , anyone who had one quickly burned or buried it ...so who knows how many are still around.The Crown made me wonder as well. But I remembered that the picture I saw showed Civilians wearing these Armbands , not in Uniform..just Street Clothes ...could they have been trying to imply that another Government entity was responsible for the Death Squads ..in a way distancing the Arrow Cross from the brutality ? Or , at that point ...was the Crown a more respected symbol of authority than the Arrow Cross symbol ...and one not to be questioned ? Could these Armbands have been produced before 1944 by Horthy for another use and just adopted by the Death Squads since they were already available ? One thing is for sure ..the Arrow Cross didn't stop using the Crown as soon as they took over.Maybe your visit will turn up a few answers ...maybe you'll find one on display there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Mike,Ah yes, Snider's Treasures". What an unusual chap! The arm band you mentioned could have been one of just a few made although from the sounds of it well made. I don't ever remember reading about anyone rounding up people after Operation Margarethe who wasn't wearing a black Arrow Cross uniform but then again there isn't a lot in print about them. The arrow cross stamps on documents awarding medals etc were certainly removed at the end of the war. I saw an award document for a Vitez at the December Militaria Show here in Budapest and in the location where the authorization stamp is normally placed there was just a neat round hole. Hopefully I will get to visit The House of Terror soon. My wife even mentioned visiting it this morning at breakfast! Strange coincidence?Just as an illustration of things that happened re the Arrow Cross in the last few months of the war, here is a picture of the Arrow Cross stamp that the Vannay Battalion used to authenticate their documents with the Arrow Cross. It wasn't an official stamp because there wern't any so they engraved their own. The photo is from Ervin Galantay's book "Boy Soldier".Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Hi Mike, Interesting and unusual post! Where were these chaps recruited from? Were they policemen, civilians or soldiers? Ans what happened to them at the end of the war? Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 I have seen a photo - but I cant seem to find it recvently - this symbol was used by the death squads who were rounding up the individuals in civilian clothes - but also this symbol was that of a faction of the Arrow Cross party known (as I racall) the "Eastern Front Veterans Association" - a group comprised of veterans who had returned from service on the eastern front after 1942. They used this symbol and even had badges made (unofficialy) for wear on the uniform. I will continue to look for the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 found them...http://philosophy.elte.hu/~jhardi/kabsz/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted February 3, 2007 Share Posted February 3, 2007 Charles,Great pictures. I've heard of KABSZ before but didn't realize it was as wide reaching s it appears to be from the photos you posted.Regards,Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnHajnal Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Hi All. I found this link about the Arrow Cross' persicution of the jews. It has some great photos of Arrow Cross men in uniform, and has a Waffen SS soldier with the death squad pin on his right breast pocket. Note there are some graphic photos. http://www.osa.ceu.hu/galeria/sites/siege/section2.htmlJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunyadi Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Of interest and a bit off topic - but the Dohany street scene with the deaths of the Jews from the Ghetto has an interesting twist of hisotry. According to Ervin v. Galantay a 14 year old member of the Vannay Batalion in 1944/45 who actulay lived in the Ghetto as his parents had a home there amid the Jewish community - Arrow Cross and Police forces activly worked at keeping murdering bands out of the Ghetto. According to him he revealed at the publication of his book at a meeting in the Caslte District that Soviet archives revealed that of the Dohany street Ghetto masacre when the bodies of the Jews killed there were examined only 45 bodies were found with gunshot wounds - the hundereds of others had died of schrapnel and collapsed lungs as a result of massive artillery bombardments that the Soivets had exacted uppon the ghetto - from his research the Soviets had fired uppon the known Ghetto in thought that massive concentrations of German and Hungarian forces were hiding in there. During the breakout of February 12th 1945 - they again emplyed a massive rocket and artillery bombardment uppon the soldiers and civilains that were trying to break out of the besieged castle district. He recalled that bodies were sometimes two meters think at the current Moscow Square. All this of course in contrast to the book "Liberated Hungary 1945-1960" published in 1960 by Panonia Budapest pg 7 states "The Soviet troops had been ordered to employ methods of attack designed to spare the city and the hundreds of thousands of the civilain population from otherwise certain destruction...The Soviet soldirers spared the civilians hiding in thier shelters in Buda, the unarmed women and children, often at the cost of their own lives" - not to forget that most of those unarmed women were raped repeatedly, their houses looted multiple times and what of the protection of the children who were slaughtered to such an extent that suitcases were used for coffins in Buda so that the hungry bands of dogs would not eat the remains? I know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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