Flammenwerfer! Flames, skulls and stuff

[dond]

True but some of those "others" came with something else that adds to their credibility... :cheers:

[Sergeant 08]

True but some of those "others" came with something else that adds to their credibility...

I agree, it gives the collector a better feeling. But let me continue the thinking of very critical collectors.

It is not an evidence for a 100% real item. Everybody can put a lot together. As you said, it gives the item a better credibility....

Edited March 4, 2010 by Sergeant 08

[Robin Lumsden]

... maybe the maker calculated the effort needed and what he got for them.. then stopped after 2......everytime I am in Northern Ontario I visit an old lady who belongs to a patchwork circle.... any one of them makes stuff more complicated than this.....

......... :cheeky:

[Gilles]

I still must think at the way I shook my head the first time this patch was offered on eBay, skillfully described as a WWI patch for the "Nebelwerfer Truppe", quite a good mix of information & deception to put a potential buyer on the way to the Holy Graal. It seemed to me that some kind of Mary Shelley had crossed a red-eyed dwarf rabbit with the patches Detlev Niemann had shown some weeks before.

Sorry for the somewhat polemic if not sarcastic tone. I just wanted to say that I at the time didn't believe in the patch and still am very sceptical.

However I thank all authors (pros and contras) who expressed their opinions as well as the forum that welcomes us....I am just a human being - if not a gentleman- and might of course be wrong.

Regards

Gilles

Edited March 17, 2010 by Gilles

[Chris Boonzaier]

Ooooooooohhhh !

I have a photo that will push Robin and Sgt08 into male menooause.... will scan it this evening.... watch this space....

[Robin Lumsden]

Ooooooooohhhh !

I have a photo that will push Robin and Sgt08 into male menooause.... will scan it this evening.... watch this space....

I can't wait!

Must be either........

1. Photo of the black skull in wear; or

2. Photo of the black skull being faked in Pakistan!

In any case, I think I'm WELL past the menopause stage......... :speechless:

[Chris Boonzaier]

OK, maybe I exaggerate.....

I just found it pretty cool with 2 kinds of skull...

[Robin Lumsden]

Awwwwwwwwww.........

Thought it was too good to be true!

That's a nice photo though.

Iron Division machine-gunners.

Saw it on eBay.de last week.

More of the same.................

[Thomas W]

No period photo of a black skull, because the image is still at the publisher's. But here's a Bavarian flamethrower pioneer wearing the Bavarian M.1916 tunic and a cap with the Bavarian cockade. This is the only photo I've ever seen of a Bavarian flamethrower pioneer...

[Sergeant 08]

I just found it pretty cool with 2 kinds of skull...

I have seen it, too. Nice photo! Here is another one which shows different skulls in wear. It was not unusual to see different skulls (Prussia, Brunswick and sometimes other rarer skull patterns) on caps after the war. Freikorps, Wehrverband Wehrwolf, etc.

[Thomas W]

The flamethrower sappers of k.u.k. Sappeur-Battalion Nr. 61, also called Spezialsappeurbataillon, Sappeur-Spezial-Battalion Nr. 61, and Spezial-Sturmbataillon Nr. 61, wore a metal skull badge on their caps.

Here are sappers from the 2nd Company, k.u.k. Sappeur-Bataillon Nr. 61, based in Krems.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Thomas W

[Thomas W]

Here's my drawing of the skull cap badge worn by flamethrower sappers of k.u.k. Sappeur-Bataillon Nr. 61. It was about one inch square and made of white metal, with a red enameled oval beneath the numbers. The Austrian military had no tradition of using skulls in its motifs. It was influenced by the flamethrower platoon of German Sturmbataillon Rohr, who wore the death's head sleeve badge.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Thomas W

[Les]

The flamethrower sappers of k.u.k. Sappeur-Battalion Nr. 61, also called Spezialsappeurbataillon, Sappeur-Spezial-Battalion Nr. 61, and Spezial-Sturmbataillon Nr. 61,......

ALL of the steel helmets are the Berndorfer pattern, not the usual German and Austrian pattern.

I like the dog sneaking into the rear rank for the photo op.... :-)

Edited March 19, 2010 by Les

[Thomas W]

I like the dog sneaking into the rear rank for the photo op.... :-)

He/she looks very businesslike, like the men. And note that the two guys seated in front are pointing their rifles at each others' heads. Something tells me the unit spent too much time on training with flamethrowers and not enough on basic firearm safety...

[Robin Lumsden]

Some more nice pictures!

And............Thomas...............you have an artistic talent there.

[Thomas W]

Thanks, Robin. I appreciate it.

[Chip]

No period photo of a black skull, because the image is still at the publisher's. But here's a Bavarian flamethrower pioneer wearing the Bavarian M.1916 tunic and a cap with the Bavarian cockade. This is the only photo I've ever seen of a Bavarian flamethrower pioneer...

Thomas,

Just for clarification, this man is wearing a simplified M07 tunic, which was introduced in 1915. The M1916 Bavarian tunic was the Einheitsbluse.

Regards,

Chip

[Thomas W]

Just for clarification, this man is wearing a simplified M07 tunic, which was introduced in 1915. The M1916 Bavarian tunic was the Einheitsbluse.

Oops! Thanks for the correction, Chip.

[bob lembke]

Tom and Chip;

Where are we with the photo in post #440? Are we still thinking that the guy is a Bavarian soldier, but wearing the simplified tunic, not the Bavarian tunic? While Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment (Flammenwerfer) , being Prussian Guard, was not limited to recruiting within a single army corps district, I don't think that it was possible (or legal) for them to recruit in the territory of the three other royal armies. However, a lot of distinctions melted away as the war went on, but that prohibition would seem to have been rather basic. Rather odd for a Prussian Guard soldier to wear a Bavarian cockade.

Bob Lembke

[Thomas W]

Where are we with the photo in post #440? Are we still thinking that the guy is a Bavarian soldier, but wearing the simplified tunic, not the Bavarian tunic?

He's wearing the simplified Bavarian M.1907 tunic, which was issued in 1915. It was worn only by Bavarians. The giveaway is the cuff. The lower cockade on his cap is Bavarian, too.

It may be a pioneer thing. Here's a man wearing a simplified Bavarian M.1907 tunic (note the cuff and the rampant lion on the buttons) with black pioneer shoulder straps, a Prussian belt, and a cap with the Prussian cockade. Is he a Prussian or a Bavarian? He's got an Edelweiss on his cap, so...

Edited March 21, 2010 by Thomas W

[Robin Lumsden]

.........a lot of distinctions melted away as the war went on..............

Lots of genuine anomalies in this thread! :cheers:

[Thomas W]

Lots of genuine anomalies in this thread!

Just sold on eBay... Look at the man standing on the far right, Robin. That looks suspiciously like a very dark Totenkopf sleeve badge.

[Sergeant 08]

Just sold on eBay... Look at the man standing on the far right, Robin. That looks suspiciously like a very dark Totenkopf sleeve badge.

Thomas, did you get it?

[Thomas W]

Thomas, did you get it?

I did. I had to have it. I'm sorry if you bid on it, but it was unique. It shows the 1.4m kleine Strahlrohr M.1914 very clearly.

I've let other flamethrower postcards go, but I had to have this one. Please don't make me feel bad for buying it!!!!!!!!

Edited March 21, 2010 by Thomas W

[Sergeant 08]

I did. I had to have it. I'm sorry if you bid on it, but it was unique. It shows the 1.4m kleine Strahlrohr M.1914 very clearly.

I've let other flamethrower postcards go, but I had to have this one. Please don't make me feel bad for buying it!!!!!!!!

Hello Thomas,

no I did not place a bid.

I asked, because I hoped that you can show us a close-up of the man on the far right?