Mongolia Mongolian Fakes

[Bob]

Hi all,

Mongolian orders / medals collecting is of course quite a niche area, does this also mean that fakes are currently still virtually unheard of? Especially for the more rare orders?

Example: on eBay you can regularly find auctions for orders mentioned in Herfurth but a new "most recent" type... these are fakes or I'm just not up to date?

Bob

[Guest Rick Research]

Maybe they are the new/current types-- can you post scans of them here, or the links? Do you have the Battushig book on Mongolian awards?

I haven't seen Mongolian or North Korean fakes-- yet. North Vietnamese items are being cranked out for the tourist trade.

Sad to say, Red Chinese items I would have to say must easily be 9 out of 10 are crude fakes or fantasy frauds-- despite the fact that (probably because of the language difficulties) there is virtually ZERO "collector market" for them. The same fraudmasters are also churning out Nationalist Chinese fakes/fantasies-- and they are usually offered together, en masse, and by a non-amazing non-coincidence on the same suspensions with (VERY pouplar) what appear to be snips of plastic shower curtains as "ribbons."

[Bob]

Maybe they are the new/current types-- can you post scans of them here, or the links? Do you have the Battushig book on Mongolian awards?

I haven't seen Mongolian or North Korean fakes-- yet. North Vietnamese items are being cranked out for the tourist trade.

Sad to say, Red Chinese items I would have to say must easily be 9 out of 10 are crude fakes or fantasy frauds-- despite the fact that (probably because of the language difficulties) there is virtually ZERO "collector market" for them. The same fraudmasters are also churning out Nationalist Chinese fakes/fantasies-- and they are usually offered together, en masse, and by a non-amazing non-coincidence on the same suspensions with (VERY pouplar) what appear to be snips of plastic shower curtains as "ribbons."

Examples:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLEI-Polarsternord...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLEI-Orden-fuer-Ve...1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLEI-Orden-SukheBa...1QQcmdZViewItem

My copy of Battishug's book is in the mail and should be getting it any day now. I'm in the process of purchasing a complete set of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Mongolian Order of Red Combat Banner and obviously fake or not is the crucial issue.

With the above examples, they are presented in a Herfurth code which is not in the Herfurth book.

[Vatjan]

The items you show above are not fake, they are the latest emission of orders since 2004. They are no longer made in silver and are no longer serial numbered.

Ugly but not fake.

Furthermore, the Mongolian State Reserve has recently been selling his stock of unissued order.

Apparantly large amounts of 2nd, 3rd and 4th award Orders of the Red Combat banner have found their way to the market. Most were sold to Russian and Chinese dealers.

So, what you are trying to buy are probably orders that came out of this stock, and are thus unissued.

Seeing that they are so very rare, this should not be a problem if the price is right.

I think I've been offered the same set, and I can say I think the price is right, but it is still a lot of money

As far as I know, only the Khalkhin Gol badge has been widely faked. The fakes are easily recognizable though, as they are very crudely made. Just check if you can see the reigns on the horse's neck or not. If they aren't there, it's a fake.

Just yesterday I saw a Mongolian Hero medal for sale, sold as a wearer's piece. Rather crudely made compared to a real one. Now these wearer copies are a discussion without end for Soviet HSU's, although if I remember well, the latest consensus among collector's is that they did not exist.

Did they exist in Mongolia? I don't know, I've never heard of them, I would say caution is advisable.

See pic in attach.

Jan

Edited December 1, 2005 by vatjan

[Bob]

There are also some ugly Mongolian "hero of labour" on eBay... wearer copies as well I guess. New to me that they'd be 1st, 2nd and 3rd class.

Maybe we have been offered the same set - for me the price is right and I'm fortunate enough to have the money readily available, if the quality turns out to be good of course. Will see in a week or so (along with some other items) - would be a nice addition to my collection.

[Vatjan]

There are also some ugly Mongolian "hero of labour" on eBay... wearer copies as well I guess. New to me that they'd be 1st, 2nd and 3rd class.

The description of the seller is wrong, these are NOT labor hero medals, but long service medals for the Intelligence Agency, and worth about 15 US-20 US.

Maybe we have been offered the same set - for me the price is right and I'm fortunate enough to have the money readily available, if the quality turns out to be good of course. Will see in a week or so (along with some other items) - would be a nice addition to my collection.

Good for you

Don't forget to post pix when you receive them!

Jan

[HuliganRS]

Mongolia is still a niche market.

Even though the quality and detail will be hard to duplicate it most likely will be done!

I remember back in the day when Soviet Order of Frienship of Nations was only worth $100 we used to say that no one will ever fake it b/c it's too complex. Guess what! We were wrong...

Rusty.

[Gerd Becker]

Just found this on ebay, sold as a copy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/SOVIET-BADGE-HALHINGOL...1QQcmdZViewItem

This one is but they will become better, no doubt.

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, I fear that, sooner or later, the fakers will be faking anything and everything, so long as the buyers and buying their frauds. Ignorance = profit.

[Stogieman]

I agree Ed... with these prices skyrocketing out of sight, the fraud will not be too far behind. Which will eventually depress the prices back down to a more "reasonable" level perhaps, but the genre as a whole will be diluted and collectors will all suffer.