Italy - Orders, Decorations and Medals

[Marcus H]

And these three too. I don't know if the 11th Army medal is even genuine any more ??? It's been a long time since I've even looked at these.

The 'tomb' guards medal is a latter version also.

[RRA227]

Marcus H, Great medals! Rich A.

[Hendrik]

I don't know if the 11th Army medal is even genuine any more ???

Hello Marcus,

Looks good to me ... it should have the name of its designer (Mori) as well as a crown mark (Carlo Illario & F.lli maker's mark) on the reverse bottom cross arm. There are variations without those but, to my knowledge, on a slightly less wide and more square looking suspension.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Hendrik]

...date bars... they may reflect occupation and stabilization operations in Libya.

Hello Dave,

I think you're 100 % correct on that. Had a look at what Brambilla has to say on them in his book and he calls them "campaign bars". That fits in nicely with those stabilization etc. operations you mentioned. Of course, as you know, those bars can also be found on the Libya Commemorative Medal instituted about a year later. I love Italian bars, both the nice ornamental ribbon ones as well as the ones where you can get a decent espresso or cappucino

However, I'm stuck with a Libyan Commemorative Medal which has a silver bar for ... 1940 ! I find it somewhat hard to believe it belongs on that medal's ribbon but can't see what other medal would carry it. Any ideas ?

Cheers,

Hendrik

[attachmentid=60485] [attachmentid=60486]

[Hendrik]

Hello Gents,

Here's the latest Italian medal to join my collection :

Medaglia Commemorativa della Guerra 1915-1918 per la Marina Mercantile (as created on 15 July 1923) - it's exactly as the earlier WWI Commemorative Medal (1920) but for its blue and white striped ribbon.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[RRA227]

Hendrik,Great medal! Rich A.

[Hendrik]

Hello Gents,

Another Italian "for merit" medal came my way and I'm guessing it might be a local award. Don't really know much about pre-1900 Italian medals so any information on this one would be highly appreciated ...

Silvered medal, reverse named to one Crestana Michele 1898.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[JoeW]

Hendrik,Thanks! I have never seen another like this. Printed in 1941. 1 page is a certificate from 1941 to a Doctor in Foggia with his info about his Knight grade medal. Other pages have descriptions/lists of medals. Military Order of Savoia,Civil Order of Savoia,Order of S.S. Lazzaro & Maurizio,Ordre of Italian Colonial Star,Merit of Labor. Got this from a W.W.2 South African vet years ago.I was buying all the Italian badges he had/could get.I'd call him every couple of weeks and ask if anybody brought in Italian stuff. This is back when you could buy Italian brass badges for less than 50 cents each.It is not like that any more. Rich A.

Rich, would you mind scanning or photoing the page on the orders of Sts. Lazarus and Maurice? I have a neck order and breast star and am trying to determine what grade they are. Thanks

Joe

[Sal]

Hi All,

Elsewhere on the forum Haynau asked the question " don't know why so few people collect italian decorations?"

Are there really so few around ? Let's find out ...

Here's one to start off with :

Commander Class of the Order of the Italian Crown (1868-1951)

[attachmentid=17814]

Hi Hendrik

I hae attached my crown as well. My question for you and the group is whether the age/date of a piece is indicated by the jewel-work and detail on the crown? I noticed yours is more detailed and jeweled than mine. Or is it simply a matter of a different manufacturer? Thanks a lot

Tony

[Hendrik]

Hello Tony,

I think it's a bit of both : older pieces will usually show better detail and craftmanship than more modern ones but there are, no doubt, differences between various manufacturers as well.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[RRA227]

Joe,Pic of book. Rich A.

[Jacky]

We would like to see a picture of your grade of the order of St Maurice & St Lazarus.

Concerning the grade, a neckorder & breaststar are nearly always the grand officer or grand-commander or commander 1st class grade.

Kind regards,

Jacky

[JoeW]

I will get my camera out an do that Jacky, when I return from the SOS. From Rich A. page he provided, it seems to be the second from the top, with the neck order and the four pointed star. But I cannot make out the page information as the picture is out of focus.

[Jacky]

Thank you,

Good luck at the SOS.

And yes, it's a nice order, especially with the "balls" at the end of the crosses.

Looking forward to your pictures.

Kind regards,

Jacky

[JoeW]

I have to modify these photos of the neck award and breast star, plus the officer's ribbon bar. They are too large a format for this platform. The officer received them in about 1938/39. They suffered damage but survived the war. He didn't.

Edited February 26, 2007 by JoeW

[JoeW]

These are two examples of his ribbon bars portraying receipt of these Italian orders. The top bar predated his award of the 10 and 15 year party long service in early 1940 that is shown in the lower bar. Is this Sts.M & L award the Commander grade? Thanks for your assistance.

[Jacky]

Thank you for the pictures,

the ribbon bar with the two crowns is for the gran ufficiale (grand officers class)

which you posses at the moment.

Kind regards,

Jacky

take by example the modern militairy order of Italia.

this is the ribbon bar for the Grande ufficiale grade

the ufficiale would wear a silver device, then the commendatore (commander) a gold device,

Grande Ufficiale two gold devices and finally the cavaliere di Gran Croce three gold devices on his ribbon.

Edited February 26, 2007 by Jacky

[Hendrik]

Hello Gents,

A few Italian Red Cross awards found their way into my collection

Here goes :

Long Service Cross,1st class, with "FIDELITAS" bar for civilian volunteers

[Hendrik]

... same but 2nd class (both are hallmarked 825 grade silver)

[Hendrik]

... Commemorative Medal for Iraq 2003-2006

[Hendrik]

... and, finally, the Commemorative for Albania 1999

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Sal]

A few more...

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2010/post-1625-126455777918.jpeghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_01_2010/post-1625-126455780373.jpg

[Sal]

better pic

[love4history]

Continuing up a question that was touched upon a while ago: is there a way to narrow down the manufacturing date on the knight badges of the Italian crown order?

[farmer]

Continuing up a question that was touched upon a while ago: is there a way to narrow down the manufacturing date on the knight badges of the Italian crown order?

This can be very difficult unless you have original case of issue with Royal cypher on top. Earliest pieces usually used the simpler version with V.E or VE (Vittorio E II), followed by the U (Umberto) and the conjointed VE (Vittorio E III). Bear in mind there were at least 20 manufacturers of this Order through the years and some are quite obscure and unlike the most commonly seem (Cravanzola, Unione Militare, Borani, S. Johnson etc.) details differ greatly. Most of the early awards were in gold but that is far from being acurate as far as dating. Each maker had some common details that changed somewhat over the years and this is probably best way of dating but a long and tedious method indeed.

Some splendid pieces were also made by foreign manufacturers (French, Austrian even Russian) as late as WW1 period (though I doubt Rothe made any during WW1).

Few pieces were clearly marked and Italians rarely marked their products during VE II;U reigns (even material marks were optional when it comes to awards).

In my opinion, if you haven't got an original box but can narrow it down to a ruler's time period - that's pretty good.