What the h... is that order ?

[HeikoGrusdat]

Please ............... if you don`t tell me what that order is........... I ............ I am ................... completely............. disrupted I know I have seen this thing some time before but I can`t find it..... I have checked every magazine and every auction catalogue I have , I have checked every dealers website........ NOTHING !!! But I need to find it because it is the key for my next man........

So please - anyone - please ..................

it is a cross shaped order

it has a very interesting crown

I would say the ribbon has stripes like a REO - dark bright dark - but please don`t ask for colours...

it must be non-prussian because of the mounting...

AND

IT HAS A CLASP ON IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and I can`t find that cross................. what cross has a clasp on the ribbon ??????????

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP please................

thank you

Heiko

[Christian L]

judging by the crown i would say Hawaii

[avadski]

Kapiolani might be?

[HeikoGrusdat]

I have just seen a picture of the Kamehameha order of Hawaii - that crown would fit even better... but what about this clasp - I can find nothing about it in context with Hawaii orders.... ??? :o

[avadski]

Just looking at the white borders on the arms of the cross and on the device visible between arms...

This one is also possible (in lower classes e.g. commanders class...).

[avadski]

Ask this guy, he will know...

:beer:

[HeikoGrusdat]

OK........... I don`t believe it is Hawaii............ I went through the complete DOA and through the complete navy lists I have ........ nearly all hawaiin orders (and there were not much...) went to navy officers who made admirals later.... Köster , von Heeringen , Geißler , Usedom , Herbig , Mensing.......they all had much more on the breast than my man , he is no one of the (by me) known Hawaii knights.....

here he is - maybe someone knows his face. Around his neck a CO2 ....... all I know , the photo is taken after 1899....

but what about that mysterious clasp on the order............... ok ok , I am quiet..... :cool:

[Christian L]

after looking again and again at the pic i would also say it is the Royal Order of Kalakaua I - Knight (or probably Officer - denoted by the clasp)

[HeikoGrusdat]

OK........... I saw it..... there is the Puloulou between the two crossarms , the holy stick of irgendwas..... but then it must be a knight because all other classes are neck order and breast crosses... maybe the clasp is for foreigners ??? But then I have only 4 names to offer.....

Geißler - got it 1885 and after that up to 1899 about 10 more orders..... NO

da Fonseca-Wollheim - got it 1880 and after that up to 1899 about 10 more orders... NO

von Usedom - got it 1879 and after that up to 1899 about thousand more orders..... NOOOOO

von Heeringen - got it 1879 and after that a lot of more stuff ..... NO

I am missing a name............

any folks from Hawaii here - any order lists ???

[NavalMark]

See here my short story about hawaian orders to german naval officers .... Fonseca-Wollheim is wearing the same clasp on the ribbon.

http://sammlergemeinschaft-deutscherauszeichnungen.org/wbb4/thread.php?threadid=10939&hilight=Kalakaua

Sorry, its in german

I have compared the pic with the pics in "Die deutschen Admirale" and i think it is Geissler, not wearing his chinese and russian commanders crosses.

Regards

Navalmark

[HeikoGrusdat]

Woooooooooooooooow thank you so much !!! A second picture with a clasp on the order !!!!

Of course .......... not wearing all orders is always a big minefield for us....

Could you please post a scan of Geissler ......... Hope it`s christmas soon - I must get these books !!!!!

Again , thank you so much for that answer!!!

[NavalMark]

On the right Geissler as an Admrial on an oil painting from Heinrich Hellhoff, i have one more pic i will post later ...... for me no doubt, it is Geissler.

Regards

Markus

[HeikoGrusdat]

:jumping: No doubt for me too !!! Thank you so much !!!! :beer:

[larsb001]

Hello.

I couldn't get into the German Forum but I can confirm it's the Hawaiian Royal Order of Kalakaua I. You can also read more about it here:

http://en.wikipedia....der_of_Kalakaua

As I collect miniatures only I can only show you such one, the Crown is not completely correct, but as these miniatures seems to be quite rare I can live with that.

Rgds, Lars

[James Hoard]

The Order in question is definitely the Order of Kalakaua I. In this case the insignia of the Fourth Class or Knight Companion (there were no Officer or Knight classes as mentioned above).

The German sounding recipients were

Lt. Guido von Usedorn (sic) i.e. Usedom, Imperial German Navy, 1879

Lt. August von Heringen (sic), Imperial German Navy, 1879

Lt. Nichalass (sic) Reitzenstein, Imperial Russian Navy, 1879

Henry Reimenschneider, Honolulu, 1879

Lt. Da Fonsaca Walheim, Imperial Russian Navy (sic), 1879

Baron F. von Muller, Supt Botanical Gardens, Melbourne, Australia, 1882

Cmdr. Richard Geissler, Imperial German Navy, 1884

J von Scheers, Royal Dutch Navy (sic), 1888

Source: Gordon Medcalf, Hawaiian Royal Orders. Oceania Coin Company, Honolulu, Hawaii, 1963. pp 15-16 & 22-23.

The clasp device suggests that the award was made for a specific action of some kind, an act of bravery, a rescue or something like that. There was no fifth class so there was no need for anything on that basis but I have seen such devices once or twice before.

Cheers

James

[Guest Rick Research]

Geissler and de Fonseca-Wollheim are wearing this Order in their Hildebrand-Henriot Biblio biography portraits. Back in a bit with scans.

Geissler got his as 1st Officer (KorvKapt) of the protected cruiser "Prinz Adalbert" while deF-W (who also has a "bar" on his which I suspect was simply some sort of ornamental top "suspeneder" as is found on the British DSO) was a mere Leutnant zS on the corvette "Freya."

[Guest Rick Research]

© Hans H. Hildebrand and Ernest Henriot, "Deutschlands Admirale 1849-1945: Band I: A-G, Biblio Verlag, Osnabrück, 1988. ISBN 3-7648-1499-3--

[Guest Rick Research]

Same closer

[Guest Rick Research]

From the same volume. DeFonseca-Wollheim (1851-1938, char KontAdm zS aD) is rather washed out but you see the shadow of whatseems to be simply an ornamental top suspension bar:

[Claudius]

"hawaian orders to german naval officers"

That's a narrow group of guys! Great stuff.

Does anyone have a medalbar or a ribbon bar with a hawaian order on it?

[HeikoGrusdat]

There he is again... now I can see the order in total !!!

But I heard that these german navy officers got their orders just when they visited Hawaii with their warships... no speacial action , heroism , livesaving... for exemple: Von Heeringen got his one because he drove the boat with the king to the german warship :speechless1:

[HeikoGrusdat]

here is a photo from a fellow forum member who has problems with posting the pic

Could this be the younger Admiral Geissler ????

I am not shure , some things are really close......

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

Here are two more photos of Vizeadmiral Richard Geissler I found.

Also his list of awards based on the 1904 Rangliste and photographic evidence:

-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 1. Klasse (13. 07. 1904)
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 2. Klasse mit Eichenlaub und Stern (17. 01. 1904)
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden 2. Klasse mit Stern (04. 08. 1901)
-Königlich Preußische Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870–71 für Kämpfer
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-China-Denkmünze in Bronze
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden 3. Klasse mit der Schleife
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Großkomturkreuz des Königlich Bayerischen Militärverdienstordens
-Komturkreuz 2. Klasse des Königlich Württembergischen Friedrichs-Orden
-Kaiserlich Chinesischer Orden vom Doppelten Drachen 2. Klasse, 2. Stufe
-Ritterkreuz des Königlich Hawaiischen Ordens Kalākaua I.
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus
-k.u.k. Österreichischer Orden der Eisernen Krone 2. Klasse
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Annenorden 2. Klasse mit Brillanten
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Stanislaus-Orden 2. Klasse mit Stern
-Kommandeurkreuz 1. Klasse des Königlich Schwedischen Schwertordens
-Komturkreuz des Königlich Spanischen Ordens Isabellas der Katholischen

Based on this list of awards, can anyone determine what are the three breast stars he is wearing?

Thanks

[JohanH]

My guess is that number 1 is the Swedish order of the sword. 

See this example sold at a Swedish auction house. 

https://www.bukowskis.com/sv/lots/832766-svardsorden-kraschan-silver-cf-carlman-stockholm-1910

 

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

I think you are right Johan. Thanks.