Peter BL Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) Hi All....Just picked up this NCO U-boat cap named to Ernst Lutz from the U591.Note the scalloped Brass field upgrade. Any opinions on the cap appreciated. Best...Peter http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2009/post-3147-125219352219.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2009/post-3147-12521935439.jpg Edited September 5, 2009 by Peter Baillie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 ......http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2009/post-3147-12521936016.jpeghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2009/post-3147-12521936199.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 Last one...Thanks for looking http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2009/post-3147-12521936977.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2009/post-3147-125219370749.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Hello Peter, At this time I think that the cap is propably a good one but restored or upgraded, more pictures are necessary. I like some parts but some other a little less. Which material inside ? Gaze on the upside lining ? Part on the front side ? Close up picture of the visor sewing ? Close up picture of the buttons sewing ? Close up picture of the sweatband sewing ? The name "Lutz" inside, but why U-591, other U-Boot Officers had the same name. Best regards, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Can you post a pic with the white top removed. Ideally, on original caps there should be a white "cheesecloth" type gauze material covering the inner face of the liner, like this, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 Thanks for the replies....The cap along with other items came from his estate, now sadly broken up. I've enclosed some more photo's. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted September 6, 2009 Author Share Posted September 6, 2009 Last one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fregatte Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Hi All....Just picked up this NCO U-boat cap named to Ernst Lutz from the U591.Note the scalloped Brass field upgrade. Any opinions on the cap appreciated. Best...Peter http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2009/post-3147-125219352219.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_09_2009/post-3147-12521935439.jpg Hi , this not a NCO cap but rather an Officers cap. You can see the "Keksrand" that has been made out of brass. My father had a similar one and the brass was painted with luminescent paint so he could be recognized at night. I still have it in my posession regards Fregatte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Peter is correct, his is an NCO cap, but one which has been altered for use by an officer. Officer caps have the peak covered with blue cloth. Peter, am I right in assuming the stiffener inside the cap band is celluloid material rather than the pasteboard / card type material you find in Army/Luft caps. Looks like a nice original , modified, cap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Thanks for the pictures, not a textbook one but a good and nice cap. Best regards from France, Michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 Peter is correct, his is an NCO cap, but one which has been altered for use by an officer. Officer caps have the peak covered with blue cloth. Peter, am I right in assuming the stiffener inside the cap band is celluloid material rather than the pasteboard / card type material you find in Army/Luft caps. Looks like a nice original , modified, cap. Hi Gordon, thanks for the positive replies everyone ...The stiffener I'd describe as a grey crisscross hard material(not pasteboard IMO). I think Lutz was one of the survivor's and went into captivity 30.07.43 (I assume in the US) so maybe this cap may have been a field promotion on an earlier patrol...then left at home or on the base, hence the condition and why it's surfaced now. Michel....you're right, not textbook but pleased this one's a nice original. Best...Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 I thought I'd bump this thread back up with some period pictures that were posted on another forum. Interesting to see this must have been a common practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 The Assmann firm actually made exactly replicas of the peak embroidery in metal for such eventualities, though hand made examples seem to be more common. This is one my favourites from the U-Boat Archive collection, with the Assmann style metal "embroidery". . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 The trim is held on with prongs on the reverse, just like a cap badge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 since i know little of these caps, could you explain the significance of the metal band added to the visor? also the embroidered figures on the strap?? my thanks! joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 since i know little of these caps, could you explain the significance of the metal band added to the visor? also the embroidered figures on the strap?? my thanks! joe NCO caps had a shiny black compressed fibre peak, whereas officer caps had a cloth covered peak, the edge trim being embroidered in gold wire / yellow celleon thread. The design of the trim indicated rank grouping - a narrow scalloped trim as shown here indicated ranks from Leutnant to Kapitänleutnant, a wider band, of oakleaf design, indicated Korvettenkapitän to Kapitän, and a double row of oakleaves from Kommodore to Grossadmiral. Within these rank bandings, specific rank was indicated the the sleeve rings on the reefer jacket, or by shoulder straps on other jackets. It was quite common where a senior NCO was promoted to officer rank, that an old cap rather then being discarded, was upgraded either by adding a correct officer style peak, or by adding hand made (as in Peter's cap) or purpose made metal trim to replicate the embroidered trim. The markings on the chinstrap of the cap immediately above, were added by the original owner -each one indicating a ship sunk by his boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 i asked a $10 question and got a $50 answer. thanks, gordon! not surprised to see boat made upgrades - i would imagine these sailors became quite attached to an "old friend". joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Hi! Interesting tread and Nice Cap You sharing. Morten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 - i would imagine these sailors became quite attached to an "old friend". joe You are absolutely correct Joe. I have photos of some amazingly shabby old caps and tunics still being worn by U-Boat officers. Of course they all had some nice dress uniforms available too, but clearly some had their particular favourite tunic or cap that they wore until it literally fell to pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 You are absolutely correct Joe. I have photos of some amazingly shabby old caps and tunics still being worn by U-Boat officers. Of course they all had some nice dress uniforms available too, but clearly some had their particular favourite tunic or cap that they wore until it literally fell to pieces. Hi! Gordon Please show us Your Photos.:jumping: All the best Morten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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