Noor Posted September 12, 2009 Share Posted September 12, 2009 (edited) Hi all, What about this bar? As far I understand it's not trackable but how rare combination it is? I plan to swap it and let it go but before that I would like to be sure I do riht thing. So, what you guys can "read out" of that? Edited September 12, 2009 by Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 A Saxon, commissioned during the First war as a Leutnant or Leutnant dR (FAM up to SAB3X), member of a uniformed NSDAP organization with "Old Fighter" status pre-1933 and yet claims to have been a career state employee. That last was sometimes made "retroactive" for nazis who had been dismissed before 1933. Circa 1941 or so-- still the type of swords in common use before 1943, and no awards of the NSDAP award until January 1940. The Nazi civil service cross rules out anyone in the SS-VT etc so probably a Hauptmann zV or Hauptmann dR zV called back for Wehrmacht service, but a Nazi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted September 13, 2009 Author Share Posted September 13, 2009 Thanks Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Question about rarity is a good one. I assume as set like this, with WW1 Saxon duo plus NSDAP-DA plus KVK2X might be UNIQUE - but totally not traceable. Or might there have been more with EXACTLY this combination? What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 Impossible to say because the ONLY uniformed organization of the NSDAP that we have any Dienstalterslisten for is the SS. No PL, no SA, no NSKK, no NSFK... so there is simply no way to guess how many others there COULD gave been. There HAD to have been DALs for all those organizations... but we have been working solely on the Imperial military forces... and never ever anywhere in the last 64 years have DALs been found for any of these other organizations. :speechless1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted October 4, 2009 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) Here is next weird ribbon bar what had been in my collection almost from the beginning. This bar was posted up here as well but haven't figured out what is the third ribbon on it PS: I would like to sell it and I like to be sure that I do not let go something what I regret later on (I miss it anyway ) Edited October 4, 2009 by Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hunter Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Here is next weird ribbon bar what had been in my collection almost from the beginning. This bar was posted up here as well but haven't figured out what is the third ribbon on it PS: I would like to sell it and I like to be sure that I do not let go something what I regret later on (I miss it anyway ) Hi Noor, Great bar! I think the 3rd ribbon is Baden Orden Berthold des Ersten - Ritterkreuz mit Schwertern . Is that a Hamburg Hanseatic Cross on the end? If so, should that not be before the Hindenburg Cross?? Best regards Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 No, it's the Lippe-Detmold Military Merit Medal (Nr. 1186 in Deutschland Katalog Orden & Ehrenzeichen 1800-1945), which for early WW1 was a wound medal for those who hadn't received an Iron Cross yet. It SHOULD have been returned after the normal EK2/LKr pair was earned but many recipients apparently kept it (and would have gotten a Wound Badge TOO in 1918) I am sure this was discussed since we've had threads on that award before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hunter Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) No, it's the Lippe-Detmold Military Merit Medal (Nr. 1186 in Deutschland Katalog Orden & Ehrenzeichen 1800-1945), which for early WW1 was a wound medal for those who hadn't received an Iron Cross yet. It SHOULD have been returned after the normal EK2/LKr pair was earned but many recipients apparently kept it (and would have gotten a Wound Badge TOO in 1918) I am sure this was discussed since we've had threads on that award before. Rick, Does the Lippe-Detmold KVM have the red stripes on the edge of the ribbon? I found this ribbon for the above named award, but it just has the yellow stripes at the end and no red like the one on Noor's bar. Is this the right one? I know the Lippe-Detmold award you mentioned makes a lot more sense than the Badan award i suggested. Best regards Matt (attached ribbon pictures courtesy of Lukasz Gaszewski) :cheers: Edited October 4, 2009 by M Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I suspect very often they simply used the ribbon for Baden long service awards as "close enough for gubamint work." The Detmold MVMs weren't common enough to have been in stock at dealers outside home territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hunter Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 (edited) I suspect very often they simply used the ribbon for Baden long service awards as "close enough for gubamint work." The Detmold MVMs weren't common enough to have been in stock at dealers outside home territory. Thanks for the info Rick!! That all stands to good sense to me! The Baden long service ribbon is the same as the Berthold ribbon! Matt Edited October 4, 2009 by M Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 The Baden long service ribbon is the same as the Berthold ribbon! Definitely not, whatever is to be seen on the net! Berthold order's ribbon had GOLD stripes, not yellow, using metal thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hunter Posted October 4, 2009 Share Posted October 4, 2009 Definitely not, whatever is to be seen on the net! Berthold order's ribbon had GOLD stripes, not yellow, using metal thread. Saschaw, Thank you for this info! Noor, sorry for stealing your thread on you! Kind regards Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 No worries Matt! It's the meaning of the forum to have some active conversation here! And we all learn, so as well myself. Thank you Rick to clear it out. Checking your stolen threat (yes, I know I am bad to hang around there), can I say that the owner of this bar served in II Battalionof IR55? Anyway, it's look like very weird and interesting history behind this MMM, I better keep it to my small collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 No. Although our Solomon found the Detmold MVM Roll to March 1915 the few WW1 awards on that went to NATIVES of Detmold regardless of what unit they were actually in. One was in Inf Rgt 74. Of course, there were over 2,000 more, but THOSE are individual receipts that will have to be individually handled and transcribed and not on a Roll! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 Here is few more buzzles for me. First set of two Luftwaffe - Freikorps bars set. Even the LS devices indicate Luftwaffe, then longer bar reverse velt is blue. I understand it can be some kind a hint but can some expert confirm it please. Can it be Navy Flak, etc in this case? PS: Please do not think I like to take some profit from them before I like to sell/trade them but I just wanted to be sure myself what I let go and do I let them go at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 reverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 Saxony officer ribbon bar. Nothing very blury here but my question would be - what is the number approx. as a combination of two Alebrt Orders? I presume it is common enagh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted October 6, 2009 Author Share Posted October 6, 2009 Last tonight, question for bars construction expert Rick - what kind a ribbon bar plate is that because I haven't seen anything like this before. Also searching the forum don't give me any glue. Meantime reverse is stamped with the DRP? What period this kind a construction was used and is it common for some smaller area - some Anhalt maker maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riley1965 Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Rick, Does the Lippe-Detmold KVM have the red stripes on the edge of the ribbon? I found this ribbon for the above named award, but it just has the yellow stripes at the end and no red like the one on Noor's bar. Is this the right one? I know the Lippe-Detmold award you mentioned makes a lot more sense than the Badan award i suggested. Best regards Matt (attached ribbon pictures courtesy of Lukasz Gaszewski) So, NO Baden Ribbon? As I'm still trying to start my Baden collection. Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted October 6, 2009 Share Posted October 6, 2009 Nice bar Timo, the last one you post, second ribbon is from Anhalt. Construction after 1916 for sure. Christophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 Thanks Christophe, I will post those details soon to you what you requested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 Two more bars to check.... I just wanted to be sure that they are good ones before I send them out. First is the bar with Prague clasp. Passes black light test, ribbon plate is bended a little from EK2 lower corner. Pin system looks odd but the catch is stamped out (can feel it throw ribbon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 Oldenburg bar with Golden Long Service award. Great reverse plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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