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    Any Way to Narrow Down this Zahringen Group?


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    I've had this Zahringen group for a while. The Oldenburg and Lubeck awards are common in Navy groups. He was obviously an old timer, with the 1897 medal and the 25 yr. LS Cross. He must have had some connection to Baden but, no 1902 Jubilee. To top it off, the bar has a Stuttgart maker's label. But, with no Wurttemberg awards, this was likely his home later in life when he was a Civil Servant. Does this combination point to a particular branch or unit?

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    Just to clarify things-didn't military time served count towards the state long service medal as well?

    According to Angolia's "For Fuhrer & Fatherland", time spent either in the military, police or the Labor Service counted towards the award.

    Edited by Beau Newman
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    The rolls for the Baden lion exist but not for the others, so for now it is just a great bar without a name.

    I believe the rolls for the Lubeck Hanseatic Cross exist...this is how Rick researched my Generalleuttnant medal bar! :blush:

    Best regards

    Matt

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    Yes, Lübeck is worked on... but that duo will still not be enough.

    My initial thought was "not a Badener" due to the missing of a 1902 medal. That's correct, assuming he was an officer his whole time in the military. Though, there's no way to exclude he was a career ex-NCO who would have qualified for the 1897 medal, but NOT for the 1902 medal!

    Another point that now raises is the class of the Zähringer. I see a silver knight's cross 2nd class, right?

    Makes me believe he indeed was an ex-NCO as it's unlikely to be in service as an officer literally for decades, still being a Leutnant or an Oberleutnant.

    However, a very nice bar!

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    The possibility that he had a wartime commission had occurred to me given the 2nd Class Zahringen. I always assumed that the award of the 1902 was more or less universal, due to the large number awarded. You learn something new every day here!

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    Guest Rick Research

    Not an "ex-NCO" as in retired, but in some long slow technical career-- Feuerwerks- or Zeug- officer. But I can't find anybody as is, either.

    I do see a gap in the ribbon drape above the Baden Order that does not show on any of the other tightly sewn awards--

    if OAKLEAVES have been removed there are three suspects, the most promising (with all the WW1s confirmed) would be Major aD Erich Schaumburg. He had the "vor dem Feinde" bar to his OK2 BUT that does not mean if one was unavailable in the mid 1930s he (or any other holder) would have simply omitted it-- as in all the China or SW Africa combatant Campaign medals we see with no battle bars. No idea whether he was a civil servant after retiring from the army.

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