Netherlands Belgian WW1 Diploma...

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

this is to soeone in the 2nd Ligne regiment, he was born in Pays bas (Does that make him Dutch?).

Are these the medals for a front fighter or would he have something different? Is the document official in some way?

[Hendrik]

Hi,

this is to soeone in the 2nd Ligne regiment, he was born in Pays bas (Does that make him Dutch?).

Are these the medals for a front fighter or would he have something different? Is the document official in some way?

Yes Chris, that would mean a Dutchman at birth ...

I rather doubt he saw much front service : no Croix de Guerre, no front bars on the Commemorative Medal...

Not sure about the document being official but I think not ... it was given in "recognition by the grateful nation" but I rather assume veterans' societies (or perhaps even an enterprising printer) were responsible for its creation.

[ErikMuller]

Chris

I would be very interested in the details of this Dutch recipient. Could you post them here or PM them to me?

Thanks,

Erik Muller

[Jef]

I rather doubt he saw much front service : no Croix de Guerre, no front bars on the Commemorative Medal...

Hello Hendrik,

A relative of mine has the same document as Chris'document . Normally you should be able to see the veterans service during the war. Attached are some pics, he saw service from 3/10/16 untill the end of the war. Next post will shows his medals.

will be continued....

[attachmentid=52587]

[Jef]

I saw he got wounded on 20 December 1916( mobilisatiezakboekje) So his Commemorative medal should have a red cross on the ribbon. Later on he went back to his unit, so he earnes a star on his ribbon of the Commemorative medal. He also had the " vuurkaart" ( fire card,... in 1934 he received the Fire Cross) which means he was at least 1 year in the frontline, so at least he had 1 or 2 frontstripes. When we are looking to his medals ( see attachement) there are no ribbon insignia on his Commemorative medal 14/18. No red cross, nor star and no front stripes.

So, as far as i'm concerned we cannot always conclude his service.

On the other hand some veterans ( or veteran's league) put some non official insignia on the ribbons...

Hendrik, these are my statements. I think i'm wrong somewhere....? Comments would be gratefuly received

Kind regards,

Jef

[attachmentid=52588]

[Hendrik]

Hello Jef,

The Commemorative Medal should indeed have a red cross device on its ribbon - not so sure about the star device (working from memory I think that needed a change of branch due to a wound or illness but you mention he returned to his unit).

Receiving the fire card (and Fire Cross) doesn't necessarily mean a minimum of one year of frontline service, e.g. 9 months in the final push (28 Sept to 11 Nov. 1918) would suffice. However, being wounded in 1916, regaining his unit afterwards and surviving the war does point towards at least one or more front stripes.

I take it you don't have the actual fire card in your possession ? That would remove all doubts as all awards one is entitled to are listed on it.

The lion device on the war cross (Croix de Guerre) ribbon is of a later type and might indicate a late award of the decoration itself or replacement for a lost original. This might just explain the absence of the Comm. Medal's devices : perhaps they were lost as well and never replaced by your relative ... but this is just guesswork, I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Hendrik]

Jef,

Forgot to mention something in my previous post : I noticed the Yser Medal in the group ... how can that be there if he saw service from October 1916 onwards ? Only participants of the October 1914 battles could receive that one !

Hendrik

[Chris Boonzaier]

Chris

I would be very interested in the details of this Dutch recipient. Could you post them here or PM them to me?

Thanks,

Erik Muller

Hi,

His name was Adolphe Henri Joseph COLIN of the 2e Regiment de Ligne, born on the 20March 1884 in what looks to be "Riviemonde" (Pays Bas)

Best

Chris

[Jef]

Jef,

Forgot to mention something in my previous post : I noticed the Yser Medal in the group ... how can that be there if he saw service from October 1916 onwards ? Only participants of the October 1914 battles could receive that one !

Hendrik

Hello Hendrik,

You are completely right. I didn't see this. How can he has a medal of the october '14 battles if he saw service in 1916 and later? I don't have his fire card, only the later 'Kaart van Vuurkruiser ' and several reduction cards. His Livret de Mobilisation/mobilisatie-zakboekje is missing an important page. I don't know what i have to think about this?

In the past, i remember i had a similar case. Will look if i can find it and post it later.

In any case, thank you for any help

kind regards,

Jef

[Vatjan]

Not sure about the document being official but I think not ... it was given in "recognition by the grateful nation" but I rather assume veterans' societies (or perhaps even an enterprising printer) were responsible for its creation.

During my recent research in the army archives, I found indications that this is indeed an official doc, it is referred to as the "artistic diploma"

[Hendrik]

this is indeed an official doc, it is referred to as the "artistic diploma"

Hello Jan,

Excellent ! Thanks for the information ! Do let us know more on this if/when you find further details

Cheers,

Hendrik

[ErikMuller]

Hi,

His name was Adolphe Henri Joseph COLIN of the 2e Regiment de Ligne, born on the 20March 1884 in what looks to be "Riviemonde" (Pays Bas)

Best

Chris

Thanks Chris,

I will see what I can dig up for you in the Low Lands

Cheers,

Erik

[love4history]

Goodafternoon Gentlemen,

Given the topic of this (and other) research subjects you might be interested in this (new) site:

http://www.tenboome.webruimtehosting.net/g...kprojecttotaal/

It's an ongoing project so a little bit of patience is in order, but the 32000 names and the general information already warrant a visit IMHO(next update scheduled next week with 1000).

And oh yes, the main parts of the site are in Dutch, English and French to accomodate our international visitors. Please feel free to leave any opinions/advise etc.. in the guestbook

Hope sooner or later you might find just that little piece of information you're looking for in there

Not going to tell you anymore and ruin the surprise just have a look, you'll probably like what you're seeing

cheers from Belgium!

[Michael Johnson]

Fascinating. I found two entries who are probably remote cousins of mine. Darn! does this mean I have to start collecting Belgian as well?

[love4history]

Fascinating. I found two entries who are probably remote cousins of mine. Darn! does this mean I have to start collecting Belgian as well?

You know you want too Michael

[Michael Johnson]

You know you want too Michael

Interestingly enough among my grandfather Darte's books was "Albert, Roi des Belges". I don't know whether they kept up any contact with their Belgian cousins after they moved to France about 225 years ago. They did not get French citizenship until much later.

[Michael Johnson]

Here's one of them. If I read it correctly he has the Belgian Croix de Guerre with Palm, the Yser Medal, the Medaille Militaire 2nd Cl. (Art 4), Victory Medal and Commemorative Medal with 5 Front stripes and 1 wound stripe.

[Hendrik]

If I read it correctly he has the Belgian Croix de Guerre with Palm, the Yser Medal, the Medaille Militaire 2nd Cl. (Art 4), Victory Medal and Commemorative Medal with 5 Front stripes and 1 wound stripe.

Hello Michael,

That is indeed correct and one can add that the Military Medal 2nd class (Art. 4) carried a silver palm on its ribbon (indicating a wartime award) - he apparently was wounded in the act concerned. As he is in one of the Fire Card books, he obviously also got the Fire Cross. Would be a very nice group to display !

Cheers,

Hendrik

[love4history]

Hello,

I'm happy that you found a pic of one of your distant cousin. I agree that you definitely should frame the medals and a picture of him

Would like to inform as well that by now we already have had frequent updates of the list and have passed the 66000. You can search on familyname, place of residence or unit served in. As the number by now exceeds the excell-maximum we had to cut up the index into the different books/years. This makes it a bit more unpractical to search but at least the list is still on-line and searchable. We will try to devise other more practical searchtools in the future.

If you haven't visited the site yet, you should definitely have a look on: http://www.tenboome.webruimtehosting.net/g...kprojecttotaal/

It contains an english portal as well

And as always, any comments are welcome in the guestbook.