Medal Bar

[Chip]

An aquaintance asked me if I thought this bar might be identifiable. Not being a medal guy, I couldn't help him much. Can anyone offer an opinion as to whether this bar could be attributed? It has an interesting mix of awards.

Thanks,

Chip

[dond]

Chip, isn't that bar currently for sale or did your guy buy it already?

[Chip]

Chip, isn't that bar currently for sale or did your guy buy it already?

Don,

As far as I know, this bar has not been offered for sale. The owner was taken aback when he started getting unsolicited offers for it and asked me to help him find out what all the interest was about. I could not tell him anything other than it appeared to be an interesting bar that might be one that could be identified. Will it be sold at some point? I assume so.

Chip

[Claudius]

Don,

As far as I know, this bar has not been offered for sale. The owner was taken aback when he started getting unsolicited offers for it and asked me to help him find out what all the interest was about. I could not tell him anything other than it appeared to be an interesting bar that might be one that could be identified. Will it be sold at some point? I assume so.

Chip

reverse side please....

:love:

[Guest Rick Research]

Theoretically this can be identified. I've got the Hessian 1914 Ordensliste, which shows the Merit Cross of the Philipps Order X, but I do NOT have the years of the Prussian Militär Wochenblätter which would cross-check who got the MEZ2.

The problem is, with a hook back bar anybody could have swapped awards anytime. The ribbon in first place is the generic war ribbon normally found on the Hessian WW1 Bravery Medals, not the Philipps Order. Might simply be "close enough" from the 1930s mounter not having any. The awards themselves are certainly consistent with a senior Hessian NCO who went out of service from the Imperial Schutztruppen before WW1, improperly wearing two long service awards per confusion with the Wehrmacht 1936 regulations.

The numbers of that first award are ... minimal. That's what is causing the interest and (since most collectors are not as nice as we are) ruthless/vicious probable competition.

[VtwinVince]

I am the buyer of this bar, although it is certainly not my main area of interest. The medals are attached to the back not via hooks but have been stitched on. It all looks period, although a bit of a dog's breakfast. I don't have it in hand yet.

[dond]

A nice catch. I was interested but the seller kept bouncing back and forth between prospective buyers in an auction type sale so I bowed out.....

[Chip]

Well, I see that I was mislead regarding the status of this bar. Although I had no personal interest in it, I am happy to see that someone here on the forum has been able to bring the bar into this circle of medal collectors/enthusiasts.

Chip

[VtwinVince]

I know what you mean, Don, things were looking a little iffy on getting this one, but I thought it had potential as a highly unusual combo. Of course ID'ing it would be great.

[dond]

Unusual and an enlistedman's bar. Things I collect. But getting into a secret bidding war whether real or imagined was too much for me. I'm not hear to inflate dealer's profits. I also will not help i.d. things for them either. They want to make the money they need to do the work.

Now if you ever decide to part with it...... :whistle:

[David M]

Unusual and an enlistedman's bar. Things I collect. But getting into a secret bidding war whether real or imagined was too much for me. I'm not hear to inflate dealer's profits. I also will not help i.d. things for them either. They want to make the money they need to do the work.

Now if you ever decide to part with it......

Apperantly he is also one of the 2 germans who did not get an EKII?

[Guest Rick Research]

That too is theoretically traceable. The recipient would have retired at senior sergeant rank soon after the Herero-Hottentot War, and been recalled for the Great War (his THIRD) probably as a Feldwebelleutnant der Landwehr. Coming under the Prussians, his commission date would be gazetted in the wartime Militär Wochenblätter (revealking the sort of assignment he was in)...

all of which "can" be done, but would require a great amount of work

and that doesn't get done out of boredom by those of us without enough hours in the day to expend in theoretical exercises on behalf of unknown parties.

If the current owner is a member here, congratulations, post it (front and back please) and if...

time and motivation both permit, a process of elimination MIGHT restore the recipient's name from the void of history.

[VtwinVince]

Rick, I will get good scans up as soon as I have it in hand. And Don, I will let you know if I decide to move it along.

[WNickel]

Hi,

here are some possible wearer of the bar

Dietz Ludwig Pr WM Schutztruppe SWA J Hess HssP 4 x 22.11.1905

Dietz Pr WM SWA Schutztruppe SWA J Pr PME 2 17.08.1905

Leiser Nikolaus Pr FW J Hess HssP 4 x 14.08.1907

Leiser Nikolaus Pr FW aD Erzhausen/Hessen Schutztruppe SWA J Pr PME 2 21.05.1907

Luckhardt Friedrich Pr VWM Schutztruppe SWA J Hess HssP 4 x 08.08.1906

Luckhardt Pr VWM SWA 2. Proviantparkkolonnenabt Schutztruppe SWA J Pr PME 2 20.03.1906

Ruppert Jakob Pr FW Schutztruppe SWA J Hess HssP 4 x 08.08.1906

Ruppert Jakob Pr FW aD Rüsselsheim 1. Feldregiment Schutztruppe SWA J Pr PME 2 20.03.1906

Schellhaas Karl Pr VWM J Hess HssP 4 x 12.08.1908

Schellhaas Karl Pr VFW SWA Schutztruppe SWA + IR 117 J Pr PME 2 01.05.1908

best regards

werner

[VtwinVince]

Hi Werner, thanks, that narrows the field down a little.

[VtwinVince]

I have this item in hand now. If someone would like to volunteer to post scans of it, I can send them via email.

[Noor]

Here is the scans behalf of Vince.

Just amazing spange!

Obverse;

Reverse;

Edited February 19, 2010 by Noor

[VtwinVince]

Thanks for posting those scans, Timo, much appreciated. Notice that this seems to be a converted old-style feldspange, with the medals crudely stitched to the backing cloth. A real dog's breakfast, but it has character.