Serbia Serbia - MEDAL and CROSS - Help in corretly identifying

[lilo]

Hi All,

I would like to have your help to correctly identify the Medal and the Cross I posted below.

They probably are Serbian awards but what exactly ?

I need the correct name for each of the two awards and – if possible – a clear photo showing also the correct RIBBONS from which they should be suspended.

Many Thanks in advance

Best Regards

Lilo

P.S. The 'Cross' shown is very similar to the Serbian Red Cross I know but it differs for the lacking of the crown suspension, for the different center and for the ribbon from which it is suspended.

Edited April 6, 2010 by lilo

[Emanuel]

Greetings,

The medal is the commemorative medal for Serbian-Turkish wars from 1876-1878 and they have been awarded to all the participants.

Ribbon is the correct one and original.

The cross is the Serbian Kingdom "Red cross Organisation"-1876 ,ribbon is original and the proper one.

The variation with the crown you mention is a late one, from Yugoslavia Kingdom SHS-Kingdom,so this cross has no damage- if you suspect so- it's just the old version from Serbian Kingdom from 1876.

I cannot recognize the mm of the cross,it might be Vienna uknown maker or Roth & Neffe-Wien, but I might be wrong about the maker.

Both original of course, especially the cross, high respectable among collectors.

Hope it helps somehow

[bovec1313]

Hi Lilo,

Emanuel is right; the only addition is that ribbon you have on Commemorative medal for Serbo - Turkish wars 1876 - 1878 is for combatant personnel;

non-combatant personnel had received medal on plain pale-blue medal. Ribbon can be in triangle form or elongated; Elongated ribbons come in two sizes, 25 mm and 37 mm wide.

Just to mentioned, awarded persons often placed medal with reverse shown as reverse bearing the image of victorious Serbia, as reverse was much more decorative in comparison to rather boring obvesre with royal cypher ''MIV''. This was of course against the regulations

Red cross decoration of the 1st type (instituted in year 1876) was used until 1882; then it was replaced with 2nd model with crown. Attachment to the triangular ribbon was quite clumsy; badge was namely sawn on the ribbon trough rectangular opening. Crosses are both hallmarked and non-hallmarked; they were produced by Viennese workshops of Rothe & Neffe (hallmarked FR) and Vincent Mayer's Sohne (hallmarked VM).

I'm including picture of the Commemorative Medal on elongated non-combatants ribbon.

[lilo]

Hi Emanuel / Bovec1313,

Many Thanks both for your detailed explanation.

As the images in the photo I posted are so confused, I would be interested in seeing the proper colours of the ribbons for the MEDAL and the CROSS :

Can you post a clear photo for each of them so that I can well understand what the colour of the ribbons exactly are ?

1) It seems that the ribbon used for the MEDAL is that of the Order of the White Eagle (with thinner blue sky stripes on the edge), isn't it ?

2) It seems that the ribbon used for the CROSS is that of the Order of TAKOWO, isn't it ?

Again many thanks for any photo you can post.

Best Regards

Lilo

Edited April 7, 2010 by lilo

[bovec1313]

Hi Lilo;

to be honest, I've found it easier to copy all the text about Commemoravive medal and post it here than cut out of it. if anybody have interest, please read... If not, skip it. It's from the book Decorations of Serbia and Yugoslavia 1858 - 1941

The Commemorative Medal for the Serbo – Turkish Wars of 1876 – 1878 was awarded to all persons who had taken part in the wars of 1876, and 1877/78 as combatants or non-combatants in recognition of ‘…sacrifices made and services rendered for independence and liberation…’

The same law laid down the design of the commemorative medal and it was stated that ‘ the commemorative medal should be worn on the left of the chest, on a rectangular ribbon as follows: combatants on a red ribbon with blue edges and non-combatants on a blue ribbon, which is wide and folded the same way as the ribbon for the Silver Medal for Valour’.

On 26 April 1878 the war ministry issued detail instructions on the awarding of the medal. The medal was to be awarded to all officers, NCOs, other ranks of (the regular and territorial armies) of the regular army and national (reserve) army and members of volunteer units, who had contributed towards ‘any military or wartime mission of the active Serbian army’. The medal for combatants was also awarded to members of medical units, army chaplains and administrative personnel ‘who had performed their duty and assignments on the battlefield under enemy fire’. Persons decorated with the Medal for Valour automatically also received the commemorative medal for combatants. The medal on the ribbon for non-combatants was awarded to all mobilized officers, NCOs, other ranks and medical personnel who had not seen combat action against the Turks.

The medal has a diameter of 33 mm. The obverse bears the crowned monogram of Prince Milan Obrenovich ‘MO IV’, surrounded by a laurel (left) and oak (right) branch. The branches are twisted around a bandeau bearing an inscription commemorating the major battles of the Serbo - Turkish Wars. The names Shumatovac/Nish/Ak Palanka/Pirot are placed on the left and Grdelica/Vranja/St. Nikola/Adlije on the the right. The reverse of the medal shows an allegorical figure of a standing woman, symbolizing Serbian victory, and holding a laurel branch in one hand and a cross in the other. The figure is leaning on a shield with the Serbian coat of arms. The Turkish flag and military trophies are placed under her feet. The central motif is surrounded by a border with the Cyrillic inscription: ‘War for Liberation and Independence 1876-1877-1878’. A certain amount of confusion occurred when the commemorative medal was first issued. Most officers and other ranks placed the more decorative reverse of the medal to the front, which was, of course, contrary to regulations. This can be seen on many photographs.

The medal was manufactured in a considerable number of variants, which indicates the large quantity of awards and its great popularity. The first medals were manufactured immediately after its institution by the law. The medals have a characteristic fixed eye-loop, which was made of one piece with the medal. Several variants exist differing in material, thickness and some details. The medal was produced almost until the end of the century and medals of later production can easily be distinguished by the ball or cylindrical shape of the eye-loop. However, these later models also differ in some variants. The ribbons for medals manufactured in 1878 were made exactly according to regulations, 28 mm wide, purple in colour and with 4-mm-wide blue edges. Later ribbons were folded into a triangle and vary in the nuance of the colour, as they were manufactured by different firms. Most medals were made of brass or gilt bronze. Some medals were silver-plated, which was contrary to regulations. In the collection of the National Museum in Belgrade there is a medal made of 18 carat gold. The hallmarks of the workshop of Vincent Mayer’s Söhne are on the edge and the eye-loop bears the hallmark for 18 carat gold.

A number of Viennese workshops were included in the production of this medal. According to the documents available and information from W. M. Edler von Müllersheim, the majority of medals were manufactured by the workshop of Johann Schwerdtner. Other manufacturers mentioned are the firms of Adolf Müller, Pittner and Christlbauer. Considering the large number of variants, it can be assumed that the list of producers is probably longer. As the medal was not made of precious metal, manufacturers did not hallmark their products, so it is impossible to link a specific variant of the medal to a specific workshop.

According to unofficial estimates, it is reckoned that about 200,000 commemorative medals were manufactured. Due to the poorly organized distribution of the medals, as late as 1890, the depots of the war ministry and some senior headquarters contained ‘a considerable quantity of Commemorative Medals for the Serbo - Turkish wars of 1876 – 1878, which were acquired in appropriate numbers by the army in both wars and which were not distributed to those who had the right to receive them’ (Official Military Gazette, 1890, no. 96, 11).

Obverse of medal with older ribbon

Edited April 7, 2010 by bovec1313

[bovec1313]

Obverse of the medal with older ribbon; according to regulations

[bovec1313]

Reverse of medal (official obverse) with latter ribbon. It's indeed similar to ribbon of the White Eagle order, but here stripes are light blue, while ribbon for White Eagle has silver stripes.

[bovec1313]

And comment to ribbons for Red Cross decoration:

The cross is made of silver-plated bronze, but a few specimens of silver also exist. The ribbon is red, with two pairs of white and blue stripes on the edges. In practice the cross was often delivered on reddish-purple ribbons, as used for the Order of the Cross of Takovo. The cross was sewn onto the ribbon. Some ribbons exist which have a small carbine hook for attaching the cross. The ribbon is 36 or 40 mm wide and folded into a triangle, regardless of whether the decoration was awarded to a man or a woman.

[bovec1313]

Another example of Red Cross ribbon

[lilo]

Hi Bovec1313,

A very very interesting lecture that you have posted about the Medal (and the Cross) : Thank You !

Before to close this post I would like to ask you last precisation/confirmation about the ribbons used for the 1st and the 2nd types of the RED CROSS DECORATION.

The ribbon used for the 1st type, as already stated/represented, is that of the above photos.

Do you confirm that the ribbonS used for the 2nd type (or Royal version) of the RED CROSS DECORATION changed in respect to that used for the 1st type and that they were two :

- For NON Combattant : plain white;

- For Combattant : white + two red stripes near each edge.

Awaiting to hear from you

Best Regards

Lilo

Edited April 7, 2010 by lilo

[bovec1313]

Hello Lilo,

you're right about the ribbons of the 2nd type (royal) of Red Cross;below is detail description.

If you would need any additional info of any Serbian/Yugoslav decorations, I'll be happy to provide...

After Serbia was proclaimed a kingdom in 1882, the design of the Cross of the Serbian Red Cross Society was changed. The decoration retained its basic appearance, but now the double-headed royal eagle was placed on the obverse of the cross instead of the coat of arms of the Principality of Serbia. On its breast the eagle has a shield with the Geneva cross, the symbol of the International Red Cross. The cross is surmounted by a royal crown and it measures 62 x 40 mm. The decoration was made of silver. The ribbon of the Order of the Cross of Takovo was replaced and two types of ribbons were stipulated. Crosses awarded in peacetime were suspended on a white ribbon and crosses awarded in war had 3-mm-wide red stripes on the edges. War ribbons were used for the first time during the Balkan Wars. Male recipients wore the cross on a 36-mm-wide triangular ribbon on the left of the chest, whereas women had their decorations on a 26 – 28-mm-wide ribbon, folded into a bow.

Bellow: Cross of the Red Cross Society of the Kingdom of Serbia and Kingdom of Yugoslavia, on white peace-time ribbon; decoration is made by Arthus-Bertrand, Paris

[lilo]

Hi Bovec1313,

Many thanks for your prompt and very useful disponibility in help me on the Serbian awards and for all the images and descriptions you have posted : I have very much appreciated your help (as that of Emanuel).

Best Regards

Lilo

[Emanuel]

Dear Lilo,

glad to see your issue about the medal and the cross have been resolved.

Bovec1313 if you ask me, is the best researcher that you can find around this moment for the Serbia and Yugoslavia Kingdom awards Era.

I know he doesn't need the publicity, but he made a tromentous effort and brought a great work with his book of "Awards of Serbia and Yugoslavia from 1859-1941" by the end of 2009.

I purchase this book and I was amazed from the deep research of all the variations, the pictures from the book and all the small details that a collector from this particular period should know.

In short , a true bible for the Kingdom Era without doubt.

I am glad collectors like you to be interested for medals and orders from Serbia- Yugoslavia Kingdom and you are always welcome

[lilo]

Dear Lilo,

glad to see your issue about the medal and the cross have been resolved.

Bovec1313 if you ask me, is the best researcher that you can find around this moment for the Serbia and Yugoslavia Kingdom awards Era.

I know he doesn't need the publicity, but he made a tromentous effort and brought a great work with his book of "Awards of Serbia and Yugoslavia from 1859-1941" by the end of 2009.

I purchase this book and I was amazed from the deep research of all the variations, the pictures from the book and all the small details that a collector from this particular period should know.

In short , a true bible for the Kingdom Era without doubt.

I am glad collectors like you to be interested for medals and orders from Serbia- Yugoslavia Kingdom and you are always welcome

Hi Emanuel,

Thanks for the kind words

Regards

Lilo

[bovec1313]

Hi Emanuel,

nice te hear; thanks for nice words. I would not say I'm the best researcher, but Serbian and Yugoslav decorations are my love for more than 30 years (in spite I'm from slovenia).

But I would would know how much troubles is to make a book in advance, I doubt I would star this work. But beeing once in and telling people you're going to write a book, you can't say after 3-4 years that you've changed your mind...

gaian, thanks for nice words... Pavel

[balkanphila]

Cross of the Serbian Red Cross Society

made by Jacob Leser (Germany)

[balkanphila]

Cross of the Serbian Red Cross Society

made by Jacob Leser (Germany)

Mark 800

[Ulsterman]

whoa!

Fantastic medal.

How did you ever get that?

Is that the one awarded to allied nurses etc?

Are there award numbers at all?

[balkanphila]

whoa!

Fantastic medal.

How did you ever get that?

Is that the one awarded to allied nurses etc?

Are there award numbers at all?

From the Book Decorations and Bages of Serbia and Yugoslavia 1858-1941

(Pavel Car-Tomislav Muhic)

According to the records man gave in Serbian Bulgarian War 1885-1886

477 Crosses of the Red Crross Society 284 to foreign nationals.

During the Balkan wars and WW I to 1921 (3135 Awards 1807 to foreign nationals.

From 1922-1936 during Yugoslav Kingdom (674 Awards 145 to foreign nationals.

I have found my "Cross of the Serbian Red Cross Society" last Sunday on International Coin Fair in Hannover.

[Igor Ostapenko]

Hello Lilo,

you're right about the ribbons of the 2nd type (royal) of Red Cross;below is detail description.

If you would need any additional info of any Serbian/Yugoslav decorations, I'll be happy to provide...

After Serbia was proclaimed a kingdom in 1882, the design of the Cross of the Serbian Red Cross Society was changed. The decoration retained its basic appearance, but now the double-headed royal eagle was placed on the obverse of the cross instead of the coat of arms of the Principality of Serbia. On its breast the eagle has a shield with the Geneva cross, the symbol of the International Red Cross. The cross is surmounted by a royal crown and it measures 62 x 40 mm. The decoration was made of silver. The ribbon of the Order of the Cross of Takovo was replaced and two types of ribbons were stipulated. Crosses awarded in peacetime were suspended on a white ribbon and crosses awarded in war had 3-mm-wide red stripes on the edges. War ribbons were used for the first time during the Balkan Wars. Male recipients wore the cross on a 36-mm-wide triangular ribbon on the left of the chest, whereas women had their decorations on a 26 – 28-mm-wide ribbon, folded into a bow.

Bellow: Cross of the Red Cross Society of the Kingdom of Serbia and Kingdom of Yugoslavia, on white peace-time ribbon; decoration is made by Arthus-Bertrand, Paris

Cross in my collection with 800 ( Jacob Leser production ) and white ribbon

[bovec1313]

Hello Igor,

great Orders' clasp; I've never seen such a great combination of Serbian, Montenegrin and Russian medals.

Red Cross seems to be on lady's bow (for men should be on triangular ribbon) - or is it by any chance just Russian way of folding the ribbon? And it's peacefull ribbon

Would be possible for nurse to receive a Russian bravery medal?

again, just great....

Pavel

[Igor Ostapenko]

Yes, it's lady !

I think british nurse receive these 3 awards

[lilo]

Yes, it's lady !

I think british nurse receive these 3 awards

Hi Igor,

which is her name ?

[Igor Ostapenko]

Hi,

I don't know , few years I wait reserch from Russian Archives ...