Verdict on Medal Bars ?

[Mike]

These Bars were recently sold on another site ..but now they are being questioned. One Collector feels they are repros from Austria.

I’ll admit that I’ve never seen a paper tag attached like that …any thoughts ?

[Mike]

I'll have to get better close up shots since ..this won't do.

Edited July 1, 2010 by Mike

[M Hunter]

Hi,

Better pics are needed. The 2-place looks good.

Best wishes

Matt

Edited July 1, 2010 by M Hunter

[P.F.]

Mike,

It was I who started a thread on these bars. The 2-place is genuine. The others for me are questionable. Here are the points i opened the thread with:

In general what i do not like is the mounting style and the thick brown thread used (which is very clear to be seen on the 4-place bar).....looks just like the work of the famed Austrian faker...

The combination of the 3-place i have never heard tell of...the last medal i have seen, but never on a German bar...could be possible but could be another sign of the Austrian....he likes to use exotic foreign awards on his medal bars!! Not crazy about the pin and catch on the reverse either.

The 4-place i definately do not like the pin and catch on the reverse nor the glued on makers label... And i just wouldn't be too sure of the originality of some of the medals on there either!

The owner has since replied and has stated that all medals are original. I had only questioned the originality of some of the medals on the 4-place.

Kind regards

Pierce

[P.F.]

Reverse

[P.F.]

4-place

[P.F.]

Reverse.

[Mike]

Reverse.

Hi Pierce ,

Thanks for posting the closeups ...

Howard is a very good friend of mine . I’ve known him for years and unlike many of our “illustrious” dealers in this Hobby , I know he’d never misrepresent anything in the name of a Buck. I didn’t have any problems with the Medals themselves ….but the Paper Tag didn’t make sense to me at all.

I’m glad Tom posted his examples so we have something to compare now.

Thanks for coming back on that Thread

[tyanacek]

Hi guys,

Here is my opinion of the three bars in question as posted on WAF:

The two-place bar by "ECK" is terrific and completely "textbook" to ECK's standards of assembly. I would have loved to buy that one myself. You

practically gave that one away, Howard.

The three-placer looks to have original medals and ribbons (except for the incorrect ribbon for the Hungarian award and which was noted by the seller). The assembly strikes me as a postwar put-together because it is not up to period construction standards, in my opinion. As Pierce mentioned, seeing an obscure foreign decoration like this on a German medal bar is indicative of the work of the Austrian medal bar forger. Also, this bar has a very simple ribbon-wrap and lacks ribbon rosettes: two more classic signs of the most common type of postwar put-together bar. I don't like the catch on this particular medal bar either. I guess you can try and rationalize this bar by saying that it is a homemade assembly, made by the recipient himself or a family member. Still, I cannot overcome my "gut feeling" about this bar and give it the benefit of the doubt. I am not at all comfortable with this bar and I would not want it for my collection. That is just my opinion, though. I could very well be wrong and the issue should be left up to the buyer. If the new buyer is happy after examining the item in-hand then that is all that really matters. Medal bar evaluation can be very tricky: lots of variables and "gray-area" involved here.

As far as the four-placer is concerned, I am really certain that that one is a postwar put-together bar. I have posted below, two pictures of a bar I owned that is identical in construction. This three-place bar goes way, way back to my younger years, when I was a bit more naive. Obviously, at the time I liked this medal bar or maybe it was just one of those quick impulse buys that many times one regrets. This bar was tucked away for many years and I seldom ever looked at it closely. More recently, I began to examine this bar closely. The more I looked, the more red flags I found. I became convinced that this bar was fake and I ended up hating it so much I tore it apart. Doing this confirmed my suspicions: The bar was crudely-made, both inside and out. The mounting plate was thin brass sheet. The hinge and catch were crudely-snipped brass sheet that were glued in place with either epoxy or what comes out of a hot glue gun. The underwrap was a white synthetic material that lit up under ultraviolet radiation. The ribbons had a few passes of thread on the ends but were mostly glued down too. The suspension rings were missing from all three medals and the medals were sewn to the underwrap only by their eyelets, which explains why there is so much thread on the medal eyelets. I was upset to see all this and angry at myself for buying it. But then, I felt relieved knowing that I eliminated a piece that had been polluting my collection for far too long. Rest assured that no one will ever end up with this piece-of-junk as it no longer exists. The similarities between this medal bar and the four-placer posted by Howard are striking and I believe that both were the work of the same individual. I agree with Pierce when he says that the ribbons look artificially dirtied. Even the patina on the medals does not look natural to me. I also agree that the paper label to Otto Gahr looks bad. As far as I know, assemblers did not use cheap paper labels on medal bars: They were either cloth or metal. I also do not believe that Otto Gahr assembled medals bars, or if they did, I would expect to see much better quality. Again, if the buyer is satisfied with the item once in-hand then that is what matters most.

Please take my opinion for whatever you think it's worth. Medal bars can be a minefield and sometimes complete certainty is not possible. Also, I did not want to become involved in this dispute, but I do so only in the hope of sharing information with others. I do not consider myself to be an expert in this or anything else for that matter. My opinion is just that, but I do offer it with the best of intentions.

Best regards,

Tom

[tyanacek]

reverse of three-place fake bar:

[Kev in Deva]

For me, with regards bar 4 the lack of woven police insignia in the construction of the ribbon weave is a red-flag.

The only Hungarian award that could be with the blue ribbon shown on bar 3 is the Re-occupation of Transylvania medal.

Kevin in Deva. :beer:

[tyanacek]

For me, with regards bar 4 the lack of woven police insignia in the construction of the ribbon weave is a red-flag.

Hi Kevin,

Actually, the 8-Year Police Medal was worn from a plain cornflower blue ribbon so it should not have an embroidered police insignia on the ribbon.

Best regards,

Tom

[Ulsterman]

NO German troops were awarded the Hungarian "flower wars " medals. There was a little cross pollination of individuals in the axis armies, but if that was worn by a Hungarian ex-soldier/bureaucrat/militaman who was somehow in a German unit that had the time to require a medal bar, well...unlikely is the way I see it.