7 piece Bar

[Gordon Williamson]

Just obtained from DaveB. No particularly rare awards, but I just couldn't resist it at what was a very fair price.

However, being pretty ignorant of Imperial pieces outside of the EK, what can anyone tell me about it and what the awards suggest re rank etc ?

[Claudio]

Hi Gordon,

It's quite a typical post 1934-35 Saxon NCO's bar (Unteroffizier). Very nice bar in good condition. Very likely he was a sort of state functionary (Beamter) since he got the Saxon long service medal (4th medal) and the Treuedienst-Ehrenzeichen 1. Stufe (25 Years, last medal) of the 3rd Reich. Practically the Ehrenzeichen f?r Frontk?mpfer (3. Reich, 3rd medal from left), the Hungarian WWI commemorative medal (5th medal) and the Bulgarian WWI commemorative medal (6th medal) were given for the same purpose: to indicate that he participated as an active front-soldier to WWI. To obtain the 5th and 6th medal you just had to fill in some paperwork and forward it to the competent consular section of the concerned country and be able to prove that you served in WWI on the same front where either Hungarian or Bulgarian troops were involved.

Ciao,

Claudio

[Stogieman]

FAM in Bronze was Gefreiter, not Unteroffizier, Nicht wehr? If UFZ, shouldn't it be a silber FAM??

Irrespective, a wonderful little Saxon Bar!!

[HeikoGrusdat]

I would agree with stogie, bronze FA-medals were given to "normal" soldiers, not to NCO`s - but of course it`s a very nice bar

Heiko

[dond]

If he recieved it (the FAM) as a gefreiter in bronze would it get upgraded to silver when he made NCO? Sorry for the dumb question, just a thought.

Don

[joe campbell]

gordon-

beautiful bar!

i'd love to see the reverse if you can.

i always hate to seem mercenery, but...

can anyone give me an approximate value

on bars this size...

i've seen the 3 and 4 place bars,

but have no idea what the extra medals add

pricewise.

sorry if this seems callous...

joe

[HeikoGrusdat]

Don,

I know many saxon bars with both FAM on it, bronze and silver, but you need to get each of it... bronze for normal soldier ranks and silver for NCO ranks. This bar here seems to be a soldiers bar, there are only "normal" awards on it and no specials, as Claudio said for some of them YOU had to ask... and most of the NCO`s had the 15y service cross and not the medal...

Heiko

[Stogieman]

Hi Don, no, the award wasn't upgraded upon a bump in rank, but he could earn a second one....... Long-serving NCO's will pop up with some really odd pieces like a Saxon Honor Cross, or sometimes the odd Saxon War Merit Cross. However, the War Merit Cross would have to be returned if he won any other war decoration from Saxony...

[Bob Hunter]

Very attractive bar, Gordon. Perhaps you will join us on the slippery slope...

[Dave Danner]

Don,

I know many saxon bars with both FAM on it, bronze and silver, but you need to get each of it... bronze for normal soldier ranks and silver for NCO ranks. This bar here seems to be a soldiers bar, there are only "normal" awards on it and no specials, as Claudio said for some of them YOU had to ask... and most of the NCO`s had the 15y service cross and not the medal...

Heiko

Hi Don, no, the award wasn't upgraded upon a bump in rank, but he could earn a second one....... Long-serving NCO's will pop up with some really odd pieces like a Saxon Honor Cross, or sometimes the odd Saxon War Merit Cross. However, the War Merit Cross would have to be returned if he won any other war decoration from Saxony...

To be a little clearer: if you have a bar with a bronze and a silver FAM, it can mean either (i) he received the bronze as a private or a Gefreiter and the silver as an NCO, i.e., each roughly equivalent to an Iron Cross 2nd Class for those ranks, or (ii) he received the silver as a second award for further acts of bravery or merit, so it would be roughly equivalent to an Iron Cross 2nd Class and a 1st Class. The sFAM was either a first award for NCOs or a second award for privates, Gefreiten who already had a brFAM. NCOs who already had the sFAM as a first award might receive the Ehrenkreuz mit Schwertern as a second award for further acts of heroism or merit.

[Guest Rick Research]

The Saxon XII Years Service Medal suggests a 1914 war volunteer to me, who at some point (often AFTER the war) was enrolled in the Provisional Reichsheer-- only to be dumped out in the mass demobilization of march/April 1920. Wartime counted double for regulars (even retraoctive ones), so "1914-18 = 10."

He might have skyrocketed from a Real Gefreiter to a discharged Vizefeldwebel in that last year of service-- I've seen it happen with groups like this. (I have the group of a 32 year old father of 4 who ran away from home, I suspect, as the world's oldest war volunteer in 1914. He was 38 when he made Unteroffizier in the Provisional Reichsheer in 1920, and mere months later got discharged with a hop and a skip as a Vizefeldwebel since he too had "XII" from 1914.)

So, he got the FAM first as a private, probably got the EK2 as a second award as a Gefreiter or maybe an Unteroffizier, and then Hey Presto! became an Official Regular, got his "long" service medal-- and a boot out onto the streets. Military service time counted as "real" years towards civil service, so again this suggests he probably first joined up in 1913 or 1914, though chances are the latter--

or he would have been MORE likely to have ben senior enough for a silver FAM before the war ended.

The Hungarian and Bulgarian WW1 Commemorative Medals are, of course, in the wrong place. They should be last, as foreign awards:

but are OFTEN found mounted as if they were GERMAN medals like this.