Flyingdutchman Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Hi all,this was my personel Xmas gift. A rare imperial Autoclub dagger. The Imperial auto club was founded in 1899 as an organization which stood ready to aid the Kaiser's armies with newly invented automobiles and skilled drivers, should they be required. It was a para military organization. For a member it was a kind of patriotic duty to offer his car and himself as the driver. Some nobilities, officers and patriotic citizens were the members of this club. They used this kind of daggers as their side weapons. The successor of the imperial automobil club is nowadays the AvD (Allgemeiner verkehrsclub Deutschland). I don?t know how many survived. I would guess just a few. There weren?t so many cars during that period. The pommel is a high finial open style. The center block on the reverse has a floral design and the obverse has a gilded automobile horn, which is applied to the center. The grip is genuine ivory having a nice golden tone and lots of graining. There is a small hairline crack on the obverse. The obverse is slightly darker than the reverse. The grip is wrapped with dual twisted brass wires. The scabbard is made of nice brown colored leather. The leather is decorated with dual line formations on the edges of both sides and it is sewn up the rear. This leather retains its original luster and is in excellent condition. The leather shell is equipped with nickel-plated or silver scabbard fittings. These mounts are retained with small staples at the rear, and the mounts have scalloped edges where they meet the leather shell. The 12 inch long blade is a double etched type having double edged construction. The etching consists of standard Imperial military themes without imperial crown and is in good condition. The blade is nice, but shows some signs of age here and there. The reverse ricasso has the Siegfried figure logo used by this company. The Imperial abbreviation of the name is listed as "P.O. & Compagnie". I believe this stands for the `Pack&Ohliger`company. All parts have been marked with the number `12`.From my limited perspective this is a textbook example of a rare imperial automobilclub dagger.Any thoughts on this dagger are greatly appreciated ! Thanks in advance and happy new year ! Best regards;Flyingdutchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdutchman Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 another background Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdutchman Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 crossguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdutchman Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 obverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdutchman Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdutchman Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 pommel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdutchman Posted December 30, 2005 Author Share Posted December 30, 2005 blade etching and numbered scabbardThanks for looking !Happy new year ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Murphy Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 Beautiful weapon. These must be extremely rare. In the New book by Jurgen Krause of field grey uniforms of the german army, the last chapter is on this association. It shows an original uniform and also shows Prince Heinrich in full regalia as head of this organization. He is wearing an example of this dagger. If this was a gift from a friend, he should have your everlasting graditute for a piece like this. I it. Dan Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted December 30, 2005 Share Posted December 30, 2005 ...shows Prince Heinrich in full regalia as head of this organization. He is wearing an example of this dagger. I'll have to check my imperial postcard collection (it's locked up at my office), but I believe I may own a postcard of Prince Heinrich in that uniform. There's also a postcard of Prince Heinrich's son, Prince Waldemar, wearing that uniform too and I think he had the dagger on also, but I may be mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregM Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Very nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hunter Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 It has a definite "navy" appearance. Very spiffy pommel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gregory Posted December 31, 2005 Share Posted December 31, 2005 Very nice dagger!If anyone has images of the uniform worn by members of this organisation, I would appreciate seeing them. I have a document group to a member of K. S. Freiwilligen-Automobil-Korps (including a reminder to members that they should wear their formation's uniforn, and not army uniform) and later S?chsische Armee-Kraftfahr-Kolonne 362. I'll post a thread on the document group when I have finished researching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdutchman Posted December 31, 2005 Author Share Posted December 31, 2005 Gentlemen, thanks for your nice comments ! I have sent a pm to a few of the fellow members with a request for photos belonging to these kind of daggers. I would also be very happy to see documents, no doubt about it. These daggers, especially in this condition, are very rare. So I would be happy to widen the infos about these puppies. Thanks to all for your great help ! Have a safe and happy new year !Best;Flyingdutchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Rodgers Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 (edited) Thank you for posting such a great dagger.Most of us only wish we could have " Xmas gifts" like this Edited January 8, 2006 by bob Rodgers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 Well, I finally got my memory to working and I managed to scan the postcard I mentioned back on 30 December of Prince Heinrich of Prussia in the Automobile Club uniform with dagger. Due to the angle of the photo, you can't really see the dagger all that well.I've posted the full postcard here, next I'll post a closeup of the dagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted January 14, 2006 Share Posted January 14, 2006 (edited) The dagger.This does not look like the same type of dagger as originally posted by Flyingdutchman. Edited January 14, 2006 by Mike Dwyer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdutchman Posted January 14, 2006 Author Share Posted January 14, 2006 Hi Mike,thanks for the beautiful photos ! Great ! I sent the link to this thread to a friend, a famous collector in the US (Vielen Dank fuer die schnelle Hilfe ! ) This is what he answered:This is the correct early uniform for the Kaiserliche Auto Club, there was also a Motor Boat Division!. The Hirschfanger is also correct. The organization changed over to the Navy style dagger in the 1890's. Here are a couple pics of my early Auto Club Hirschfanger made by Carl Eickhorn.You are welcome to post theme on your site if you like. You cannot tell from the pics but the solid Ivory grip is fluted, in the vertical. All fittings are solid nickel silver. A most handsome hirschfanger.Gentlemen, thanks again for your help !All the best;Flyingdutchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Dwyer Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Well, if I may ask, this is a photo postcard of Prince Heinrich's son, Prince Waldemar of Prussia. Is the uniform he's wearing a later uniform of the Automobile Club or is it something different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Diehl Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Yes, this is the later uniform. In this pic he is wearing a dress bayonet. The navy style Auto Club Dagger is worn in the same position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyingdutchman Posted January 15, 2006 Author Share Posted January 15, 2006 Hi Vic,great to have you aboard !Herzlich willkommen, mein Freund !Kindest regards;H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Diehl Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Drawing of the early DFAC hirschfanger from the Carl Eickhorn Catalog. When the change over was made to the navy style dagger a few more patterns also exist. There was an early closed crown type like the model 1890 cadet dagger and a different open crown in the Bavarian Auto Club daggers. There is much to be learned about these organizations. Research done by Claus Stefanski has determined that the Kaiserliche Auto Club led to the formation of the Imperial Vehicle Corps in 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Diehl Posted January 15, 2006 Share Posted January 15, 2006 Here is the Prinz's actual Auto Corp Dagger. You can see the knot is silver with blue and red stripes. For the picture credit Claus Lorenzen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Being the son of a Career Fire Captain and a Collector...I'd Love to own that dagger! Butch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueman Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 hi do you have a currant value on one these ive just bought one plain blade version...kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Diehl Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Condition is everything. $1500-2500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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