Jani Tiainen Posted April 29, 2010 Posted April 29, 2010 Jani, I thought that you may enjoy seeing my mini 3 year Gaumiester badge with the very rare mini 4 year clasp..... The full size clasps are tough to find, but the mini..... Cheers Don Thanks Don, I did not even know such clasp exists. By the way... I guess there are no reference on these badges ever made? Are there statistics how many of these 3 yr etc. Gaumeister badges were given / manufactured since that is the only one I have had possibility purchase. Regards, Jani
Scowen Posted April 29, 2010 Author Posted April 29, 2010 No there isn't any real reference material, there was a small article in 1997 in the Militaria magazine by Ingo Haarcke, but there wasn't much information in it. Much more is known now. I am hoping to write a book on both the Landesschießen & Kreisschießen events, but it is taking a long time to get all the badges & information together. Yes I can tell you exactly how many 3 year badges were awarded (they were only awarded in 1943 & 1944), & I have all of the names of the people who received them. When I get home tonight I shall look up how many badges were awarded for you. However it has to be remembered that as with all badges, more were made than awarded, so many of the badges on the market are un-awarded pieces released post war. Cheers Don
Scowen Posted April 30, 2010 Author Posted April 30, 2010 Jani, I have looked up the figures for the 3 year badge for you. In total 713 badges were awarded over the two years 1943 & 1944. If you have a chance to buy one, find out the serial number from the reverse & let me know it. I can then tell you whether it was a badge that was awarded or not (& who to). Cheers Don
Jani Tiainen Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Jani, I have looked up the figures for the 3 year badge for you. In total 713 badges were awarded over the two years 1943 & 1944. If you have a chance to buy one, find out the serial number from the reverse & let me know it. I can then tell you whether it was a badge that was awarded or not (& who to). Cheers Don Many Thanks, I am trying to get one... for last two years Jani
Wood Posted May 8, 2010 Posted May 8, 2010 (edited) Well I finally aquired mine. The corrosion is a bit deeper than the powdery effect makes it look. I was quite taken aback by the size of the thing. Thanks for your help Don. Edited May 8, 2010 by wood
Scowen Posted May 10, 2010 Author Posted May 10, 2010 They are rather large aren't they. Glad that you managed to get it. Cheers Don
--dj--Joe Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Had the camera running thought to add to this enjoyable topic. --dj--Joe
Magicmissle Posted June 26, 2011 Posted June 26, 2011 Hello everyone, I stumbled across this thread online while I was trying to find out some information on some medals my godfather gave to me before he passed away. I would like to find out more about the events, but it seems these medals are the only information that I can pull up. I would also like to confirm the serials are correct, because there was a "Ehrenkarte" paper award note with an outline of the "3 Jahre Gaumeisterschu?e" behind the writing, hidden in the backside of the presentation case that seems to have another name. The medals I have are: 1942 - Wehrmann 1943 - Wehrmann 1943 - Meisterschu?e #2238 194? - 3 Jahre Gaumeisterschu?e #476 Ehrenkarte Paper - states medal #475 I will try to post some pictures tonight Thank you!!!!!
Magicmissle Posted June 26, 2011 Posted June 26, 2011 Hello everyone, I stumbled across this thread online while I was trying to find out some information on some medals my godfather gave to me before he passed away. I would like to find out more about the events, but it seems these medals are the only information that I can pull up. I would also like to confirm the serials are correct, because there was a "Ehrenkarte" paper award note with an outline of the "3 Jahre Gaumeisterschu?e" behind the writing, hidden in the backside of the presentation case that seems to have another name. The medals I have are: 1942 - Wehrmann 1943 - Wehrmann 1943 - Meisterschu?e #2238 194? - 3 Jahre Gaumeisterschu?e #476 Ehrenkarte Paper - states medal #475 I will try to post some pictures tonight Thank you!!!!! Here are some pictures I took with my phone, sorry for the poor quality. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/KEhxe.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/4nsWX.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/Yyh0m.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/rkFCy.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/DknKg.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" />
Pagan Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 (edited) Here are some pictures I took with my phone, sorry for the poor quality. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/KEhxe.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/4nsWX.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/Yyh0m.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/rkFCy.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/DknKg.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /> Couldnt see your photos so hopefully this has worked. If not maybe Don could fix up Pic 1 Pic 2 Pic 3 Pic 4 Pic 5 Mel Edited June 27, 2011 by Pagan
Magicmissle Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Couldnt see your photos so hopefully this has worked. If not maybe Don could fix up Pic 1 Pic 2 Pic 3 Pic 4 Pic 5 Mel Sorry for making such a mess! For some reason I must have used the wrong image post type, but it showed correctly on the preview! Thank you for fixing my links!
Scowen Posted June 27, 2011 Author Posted June 27, 2011 Joe & Mel, thank you for your posts & continued support of the forum. A nice piece there Joe. Magicmissle, Welcome to the forum & thank you for posting your badges. Your posting could help some questions that I have been mulling over for sometime. Before I get into a detailed answer to your post may I ask 2 things? Firstly, please can you post images of the reverse of the 1943 Meisterschütze & 3 year badges? & secondly, what name were you expecting on the Ehrenkarte? (if you would rather not post the name on the thread, I can understand & in that case could you please PM it to me). Thanks Don
Magicmissle Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Joe & Mel, thank you for your posts & continued support of the forum. A nice piece there Joe. Magicmissle, Welcome to the forum & thank you for posting your badges. Your posting could help some questions that I have been mulling over for sometime. Before I get into a detailed answer to your post may I ask 2 things? Firstly, please can you post images of the reverse of the 1943 Meisterschütze & 3 year badges? & secondly, what name were you expecting on the Ehrenkarte? (if you would rather not post the name on the thread, I can understand & in that case could you please PM it to me). Thanks Don Hi Don! Thank you! I am assuming that the three year badges are the ones for 1942/1943 Wehrmann. I don't know if i'm spelling his name correctly as I was pretty young when he passed, it should be Helmut Stienderia? I will repost the backs of all of them in the same picture order. Thank you! Also if anyone could supply some links or information about the event I would be very interested, I came across these two days ago when cleaning out my storage locker and totally forgot about them, I was unable to find the picture book he gave me yet - but there are some great pictures of the events in there. I have no idea on the value of these medals, are they worth getting insured? Thank you so much again!!
Magicmissle Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Joe & Mel, thank you for your posts & continued support of the forum. A nice piece there Joe. Magicmissle, Welcome to the forum & thank you for posting your badges. Your posting could help some questions that I have been mulling over for sometime. Before I get into a detailed answer to your post may I ask 2 things? Firstly, please can you post images of the reverse of the 1943 Meisterschütze & 3 year badges? & secondly, what name were you expecting on the Ehrenkarte? (if you would rather not post the name on the thread, I can understand & in that case could you please PM it to me). Thanks Don Almost forgot the last one..
Scowen Posted June 27, 2011 Author Posted June 27, 2011 Hi again, Thank you for posting the extra images. I'm sorry for not making myself clear earlier, the badges I was referring to were the two large badges with serial numbers. Thank you also for giving the name you expected. Unfortuneately I cannot find that or anything similar in the records. So I suspect that your godfather obtained the badges from someone else. Maybe he knew the original owner, but he is not listed as receiving any badges in any of the the shoots, sorry. Now to the actual badges & the discrepancy of the badge/Ehrenkarte number. Over the years that I have been researching these shoots & the lists of awardees of the badges, I have occasionally come across instances where the same badge number appear to have been issued to two different individuals. I've never been able to find out how the actual pieces were given to the people who received, them but I suspect that the shooter mearly took his score card to a window & once checked, a badge was taken out of a large box full & given to him & it's number recorded with the shooter's name. If this is the case, given the number of people probably queing for a badge, it would be easy to make a mistake & record the wrong number etc. Until now I have never seen one of the actual Ehrenkarten involved with one of the errors. According to the lists badge #476 was unissued, however if we take a look at the numbers either side of this number we can see what has happened. Badge #473 was given to an Anton Ritzl #474 is listed for two people, Hans Eichenauer & Edwin Olinowetz... #475 is listed as being given to Toni Pfister, #476 is unissued #477 is listed for Josef Blersch. The fact that you have an Ehrenkarte #475 in the name of Edwin Olinowetz but badge #476 suggests to me that what happened is that a mistake was made while handing them out. Edwin could not have #474 because it was given to Hans Eichenauer, so was given #476. However in the confusion I imagine that Toni Pfister was given Ehrenkarte #476 but badge #475..... Only speculation on my part & without the other Ehrenkarten we will never know for sure. Edwin Olinowetz recieved the 3 Year Gaumeisterschütze in 1944 after receiving a numbered Meisterschütze badge 3 years running (1942, 1943 & 1944). Again, what is interesting here is that the number for his 1943 badge is not recorded, there is simply a "?" in the space in the lists where the number should be. This shows that they knew that he received a badge but for some reason the number was not recorded. So I cannot say for sure that #2238 is definitely Edwin Olinowetz's but I can say that #2238 is not listed as being issued to anyone else so it is likely to be his. Some background to the badges. To receive any badge a shooter had to attain a minimum score in a particular shoot, & depending on the score he would be given a badge in either bronze, silver, gold or gold with an oak leaf surround (like the two you have with Wehrmann on). There were three disciplines, Pistol, KK-Gewehr & Wehrmann, if a shooter attaind the gold with oakleaf grade badge in all three of these disciplines then he could have the large numbered Meisterschütze (which was originally gold coloured, but due to the zinc metal the colour is usually lost now). If the shooter received one of these Meisterschütze badges in three different years, then he qualified for one of the 3 year badges. The fourth time he was given a spange or clasp with "4 Jahre" on it to attach to the 3 year badge. The Landesschießen events had been held in Innsbruck, Austria for many, many years before the National Socialists came to power in 1938 (& still continue to this day). They just took advantage of the events & turned it to their advantage. I hope that this helps a to answer your questions a little, these particular pieces made it a little more complicated than usual. I'd be interested in seeing pix of the picture book you mention if you find it. Cheers Don
Wood Posted June 27, 2011 Posted June 27, 2011 Mistakes, Don, one of the vagaries of the period. I still find them an interesting subject, thanks for your continued research into these badges. I hope the present owner appreciates it. Regards, Pete
Magicmissle Posted July 2, 2011 Posted July 2, 2011 Don Thank you so much for the detailed information! I have not managed to find the picture book yet, but I did find one loose picture.
BURGERHAUS Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) An addition to this thread. The attaching pin plate is marked but I can't make it out. Cheers Robert PS Notice how Joe's example is silver washed and my example is copper/bronze washed. PSS I take it that this would be the bronze grade of this award? Edited July 17, 2011 by BURGERHAUS
--dj--Joe Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) Hi Robert, I must apologize for not having noticed the flash washed out the reverse image. It is in reality gold finish like the obverse. My obverse image doesn't show the true brilliance of the gilt. I've got to work on my photography skills. May start using B&W with written descriptions. --dj--Joe Edited July 17, 2011 by --dj--Joe
Scowen Posted July 18, 2011 Author Posted July 18, 2011 I wouldn't worry too much Joe. Try using natural light by a window rather than a flash, I find that works quite well, as long as it is not in direct sunlight. North facing or slightly over cast is better. Robert. Nice badge. The pin plate will be marked for Poellath, the only manufacture mark seen on this style. Cheers Don
BURGERHAUS Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 (edited) oops ! Forgot one Another from Kitzbuhel PS Don or Pete can move this to another section if neede. Edited July 20, 2011 by BURGERHAUS
Scowen Posted July 26, 2011 Author Posted July 26, 2011 A very nice piece Robert & a new one for me. May we see the reverse please? Cheers Don
BURGERHAUS Posted July 30, 2011 Posted July 30, 2011 (edited) Don here is the reverse image. Would Meisterzeichen be the winner of the event or do you think that this would be given to attendees of the event and not participants? Have a nice weekend. Robert Edited July 30, 2011 by BURGERHAUS
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