Meiningen, Zähringen and Sachsen

[webr55]

Recently got this ribbon bar with awards from Meiningen, Zähringen 2nd cl and Sachsen Albert Order.

This should be ID'able - I think - has anyone already compared Meiningen and Baden lists?

Regards

Chris

[webr55]

Back is a little strange - but certainly original:

[Arnim]

My guess is that this is a "mish-mash" bar made up up of parts - a Frankensteinspange.

The Honor Cross takes bronze, not gold swords.

The Meiningen ribbon normally takes no crown, but if a crown is mounted, it would not be gold, but bronze.

There is a strange tear on the Zaehringer Loewen ribbon - how is that explained? The damage is confined to that ribbon only and the one next to it is unscathed - not logical.

The back of the bar is very strange.

Genuine parts do not a genuine ribbon bar make.

Alles Gute, Leute!

[Naxos]

I wouldn't dismiss it so readily

I like what I see – let’s research it first

[webr55]

Thanks for the opinion. However, this is no bar assembled from parts.

1) Gold swords are frequently found on the Hindenburg Cross. We have lots of examples.

2) Same for the Meiningen crown -- look through the threads here. Many wearers simply preferred gold devices.

3) The tear in the Zähringen ribbon is strange, true, no idea how that happened - but if you were a faker, wouldn't you rather take an undamaged Zähringen ribbon?

4) General signs of aging are consistent on all ribbons.

5) The backing is so strange and so individually made that it's definitely not a fake. If you like to produce a fake, take a tab back bar or a cloth cover - but not this one. Why make something in such a complicated way when you can have it very easily?

The wearer was probably some cheapo who did not want to spend the money to have a professional bar made.

Regards

Chris

Edited November 1, 2010 by webr55

[saschaw]

Ah, there it is again. Did it come with the mini chain, or were they seperated in the meantime? I'll look for pictures...

I did not like it, but don't want to say it's not good - it's just not pretty.

Now, where to search? A "Prussian" officer or maybe a Saxon?

I haven't by now...

[Arnim]

Fakers don't just mass-produce perfect stuff - they even "age" their bars to make them look real. Why rule out a tear? Maybe the torn ribbon was the only genuine one he had in his supply box. I don't agree with the comment about guys liking gold swords and crowns. Why not add the oak leaves too! None of my relatives embellished their ribbon bars.

The fact that you have seen many "incorrect" bars doesn't prove anything, excect maybe that you might have been duped by a faker! Remember, fakers are craftsmen too, and many are very "original," often copying strange-looking one-of-a-kind ribbon bars that sell for plenty.

Great stiching is very nice - my mother was a seamstress. Her sticking was as good in 1999 when she passed away as in 1940 when she was married!

Arnim

Edited November 1, 2010 by Arnim

[Luke]

Last time I saw this it did come with a mini...

[Paul C]

I cannot say if the ribbon bar is good or bad. I can only say that I cannot find the officer.

[saschaw]

I cannot say if the ribbon bar is good or bad. I can only say that I cannot find the officer.

Paul, where did you look - Prussia? As said before, I'm not sure where we have too look.

Ah, there it is again. Did it come with the mini chain, or were they seperated in the meantime? I'll look for pictures...

I have more pictures of the set that I could send via e-mail, if you want.

If the group is fine, we are looking for a WW1 officer who saw action in WW2 and was alive at least in 1957 due to the Wiederholungsspange on the EK2.

Probably unique, but I find many, many with BZ3bX and SMK in the Prussian army.

[Claudius]

Paul, where did you look - Prussia? As said before, I'm not sure where we have too look.

I have more pictures of the set that I could send via e-mail, if you want.

If the group is fine, we are looking for a WW1 officer who saw action in WW2 and was alive at least in 1957 due to the Wiederholungsspange on the EK2.

Probably unique, but I find many, many with BZ3bX and SMK in the Prussian army.

That's great that you found the photo of ribbon bar and mini-chain. While it is possible that a faker put together both, at this point I would say res ipsa loquitur.

An uncommon combination. I hope the identity can be discerned.

[webr55]

Many thanks for the picture, Sascha!

I didn't know about the mini chain. Winkler must have split them up.

But that adds more information about the guy.

One problem with researching him is that there are quite a number of awards missing in the Saxon Albert list.

However, my feeling is this should be doable.

Regards

Chris

[Guest Rick Research]

Walter Bräutigam

Leutnant der Reserve 01.11.14 in Reserve Fußartillerie Regiment 10 from Landwehrbezirk Straßburg Kontrolle (XV. Armeekorps, with Fußart Rgter 13 and 14)

SMK 08.04.15 (the 12th awraded!) as Lt dR in III./Res Fußart Rgt 14, civil occupation "Notar Hildburghuausen" (in our Triple Ernestines Rolls book, 2008)

BZ3bX 20.05.15 as Lt dR "Fußart Rgt 14" (probably error for Res Fußart 14)

SA3bX 21.02.16 as KP Lt dR Res Fußart Rgt 14

no way to tell about the OK2, but this was aunique trio, so "must be"

Not in the meiningen Hof- und Staatshandbuch 1912

Survived the war

Better 2 years and 8 months late than never, eh?

[Ralph A]

2 cents worth of "take it or leave it" observations from a long-time textiles guy, about the fabric "damage" to the single ribbon. Take a close look at the "warp" in the weave and you'll see why the flaw can be isolated to the one ribbon. The fabric, with age, has simply parted, probably due to an imperfection found in any looming process, perhaps a "slub," a soft thick nub in the yarn that loosened with age. In other words, the yarn has parted; it has not necessarily been "nicked." More conjecture: maybe the pin in the swords loosened the slub when it penetrated the weave. . .

And take a closer look at the fabric just above the "part." It appears that aomeone with dirty fingers tried to "pinch" the fabric back together!

[webr55]

Been away for some time, I just found the new posts! Many thanks!

[Guest Rick Research]

The old crew gets back together!

[webr55]

YES! I'm glad!

Interesting: He was alive in 1957+, yet already "Notar" in 1915. He must have already completed Law School well before WW1, so I guess born around 1880-1885.

Edited August 25, 2013 by webr55