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God ..! $ 400,00 :speechless1:

Lambert

Edited by lambert

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Hi does anyone know what Laslo describes as a type 1 Portuguese Victory Medal because I have never seen anyone talk about them. Only ever hear about type 2 and unofficial??

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Thanx Bill,

Interesting that the type 1 has a different suspension.... any suggestions on the reason for this? Also I'm guessing that the type 1 official is very rare, any idea or clues from Laslo as to how many official 1's were produced?

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Hello Orynx

Supposedly was produced by Sculptor himself in his workshop.

This medal was the target of a lot of discussion, because João was in Paris and the contest was not respected. Therefore, a first issue came out, thousands of medals unsigned , and later, João da Silva called for the issue of his medal he had won the contest. The Interior Ministry, after some debate, accepted the situation and there was the issue of the medal, with signature.

I do not have a set number of how many medals João da Silva produced, but is not great , but we do not know.
Some fellow Portugal would add more?

Best Regards

Lambert

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Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition - the repro Portugal vic by Delande:

portdeland01-crop_zps73df1f07.jpg

Obverse

portdeland03-crop_zpsf239e376.jpg

Reverse

portdeland06-crop_zps8327fd1a.jpg

The Deland square stamp with the bee and BRONZE on the edge.

portdeland08-crop_zps2cb77890.jpg

BRONZE on the suspension ring.

Sadly, someone has polished away the patina, but I haven't come across one for sale before so I'll put up with a shiny medal!

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Edited by Bilco

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Wow !! Excellent Bill. I never saw a Repro by Delande before, very good indeed.
I see nothing wrong with her ​​being polished (is my opinion), I think the previous owner was very proud of his medal .. I think it is a very old polished, because it still retains some of the original patina, it does not seem "new "you see?

applause !!

Lambert :beer:

Edited by lambert

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Hi Bill,

Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition - the repro Portugal vic by Delande:

The Deland square stamp with the bee and BRONZE on the edge.

BRONZE on the suspension ring.

Sadly, someone has polished away the patina, but I haven't come across one for sale before so I'll put up with a shiny medal!

Any comments welcome.

Bill

A nice pickup of an example which is not common. Not all examples of this variety have the markings you describe; some are marked and others are not. Irrespective of the polishing it is in good condition.

Regards,

Rob

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Hi Lambert,

Hello Rob.,

It's good to have you back .. :)
Lambert

I'm always happy to help out and contribute where I am able. Sometimes my time is quite limited but I still hang out here and profer help when I can offer something of value.

Regards,

Rob

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Hi Gents,

Still on the theme of the Portugal vics - I have just received what I think is the Unofficial Type 2 (non-cracked-die) version:

portugalunoff201-crop_zpse0b2ba85.jpg

Obverse ...

portugalunoff202-crop_zpsca1193a3.jpg

Reverse ...

The diameter is a shade over 34mm, and going by Laslo's descriptions that fits the Unoff Type 2. He also says it's cruder in the finish, and this one has ridges on the edges, although I don't think it's cast. It was a coppery tone, and Victory's face is a bit crude. There's a slight raised rim to the reverse - from stamping out the planchet? The feathers on the wings are just raised wavy lines, and the crosses on the reverse have a pebbled background, rather than textured:

portugalunoff204crop_zps4607e339.jpg

portugalunoff203-crop_zpsb1a5ce05.jpg

Laslo leads me to believe that the Unoff Type 1 is similar, but with a diameter of 35+mm.

All comments welcome.

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Hi Bill,

It is the Unofficial type-1, Listed in my book on page 234 or in Laslo book, page 74 (lower left). Unfortunately Laslo has no reverse view of the unofficial type-1 or the unofficial type-2 medals in his book.

But by comparing your obverse to the unofficial type-2, There is a full right breast (not so with yours). Again look strictly at the unofficial type-2 in the book, in the area of the head: you will notice there is no hair parting, the head itself is egg shaped, and the neck area looks like a cup turned upside down. By a closer examination you will find many other differences from the unofficial type-1.

Regards, Jim

This is a view of your medal

Edited by johnnymac

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Bill also note this imperfection, high lighted by the red line. It is shown on your medal as well.

Regards Jim

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Many thanks for your comments Jim, and the point about the imperfection.

Laslo is a little vague on his Unofficial Type 2 - 'often seen with significant die cracks' tends to suggest that there are un-cracked Type 2s as well, plus some with ball suspension and some with narrow cylinder. Perhaps he has conflated two distinct variants of Type 2, or maybe all those with the narrow cylinder suspension are made by Buttuller and are your Unofficial Type 1.

My 'cracked-die' is 34+mm diameter too, while my Official Type 2 is just 35mm - a difference of less than 1mm. Maybe the Buttuller pieces were not made to very close tolerances!

Bill

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Bill,

I look for "tells" on medals and not so much on size. please don't take me wrong size is important.

Here is a "tell" the red line is point at and is found on two other unofficial type-1, plus the one posted above

Click on my illustration below to enlarge it

Jim

Edited by johnnymac

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Many thanks for the extra photos Jim - there certainly is a common flaw there which is a great 'tell' for this medal.

Bill

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Hi lambert

In answer to your question on post #155, there were produced 800 units of this medal signed by the author ( it was the minimum amount estipulated on the contract)...this information was given to me by the last curator of the João da Silva house & Museum

Best regards

P.

Edited by peron

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Olá Peron

Muito obrigado pela sua resposta.

800 medalhas , realmente é um numero bastante limitado por causa disso o tipo 1 é pouco conhecido quase como o número de Medalhas da Vitória do Brasil Tipo 1 no qual a quantidade é desconhecido atualmente. Excelente!

800 medals, is actually a very limited number for that type 1 and little known almost as the number of Medals of Victory from Brazil (type 1) in which the amount is currently unknown...

Lambert

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E muito provavelmente nem chegaram estas 800 unidades a ser distribuídas pelos ex combatentes, pois coloquei essa mesma questão ao curador e este também não soube confirmar se este modelo chegou a ser atribuído a militares...(penso e é já a minha opinião) que a emissão foi mesmo só para cumprir o contrato e satisfazer a vontade do seu autor, como forma de corrigir o erro cometido pelo Estado Português...

Cump.

Peron

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E muito provavelmente nem chegaram estas 800 unidades a ser distribuídas pelos ex combatentes, pois coloquei essa mesma questão ao curador e este também não soube confirmar se este modelo chegou a ser atribuído a militares...(penso e é já a minha opinião) que a emissão foi mesmo só para cumprir o contrato e satisfazer a vontade do seu autor, como forma de corrigir o erro cometido pelo Estado Português...

Cump.

Peron

"And most likely not reached these 800 units to be distributed among ex-combatants, I made this same question to the curator also could not confirm if this model came to be assigned to military ... (Peron opinion) that the issue was just to meet the contract and satisfy the desire of its author, as a way to correct the error committed by the Portuguese State"

Anyway. The fact that few of us could get an example of such Awards, not yet. As the Victory Medal of Brazil type 1, type 1 Siam and Portuguese type 1.

Lambert

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A nice portuguese WW I military medals miniature set , with the Victory medal on it...

rit4ci.jpg

28jbrex.jpg

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