TheKnight Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Anyone have any views on this medal which looks like a Knights cross with oakleaves and swords field replacement. Im especially interested in the oakleaves and swords. Are they original or if not who would have made them. What would this medal be worth if it is a genuine field replacement medal. All comments welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnight Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Picture of Back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stukapilot Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Sorry, not even close... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnight Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 I understand that this is not an original knights cross. It is a 2nd class iron cross converted to be a field replacement knights cross The oak leaves and swords dont look right to me and thats why im puzzled. If it is an authentic field replacement cross, whom would have made the oaks and swords. If it were not being sold by a fairly reliable source who are looking for alot of money i would have alot more doubts. Any opinions, is it a medal that could have been worn during the war or is it a post war fake attempt at re creating a field replacement knights cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnight Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 I understand that this is not an original knights cross. It is a 2nd class iron cross converted to be a field replacement knights cross The oak leaves and swords dont look right to me and thats why im puzzled. If it is an authentic field replacement cross, whom would have made the oaks and swords. If it were not being sold by a fairly reliable source who are looking for alot of money i would have alot more doubts. Any opinions, is it a medal that could have been worn during the war or is it a post war fake attempt at re creating a field replacement knights cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe campbell Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 the oakleaves and swords are not original. whether they are period made is another question, but given the relatively small number of recipients and their status and the fact that they were, in the main, officers, i am not optimistic.... joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnight Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Has anyone ever heard of a crew made knights cross. I told it is when a commander was awarded a cross and was still at sea the crew would make a 2nd class iron cross convert and im told could hand craft oak leaves etc. Maybe im been told lies. anyone think its likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrier Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Has anyone ever heard of a crew made knights cross. I told it is when a commander was awarded a cross and was still at sea the crew would make a 2nd class iron cross convert and im told could hand craft oak leaves etc. Maybe im been told lies. anyone think its likely. I have been looking at this cross (on Weitze's site) and have been a bit intrigued by it. I can see the O&S being made "on board" or "in the field" for a recipient by his men and presented until the real thing was available. What I can't understand is why the cross is an EK2. While it is certainly possible that an RK holder used an EK2 routinely instead of risking the original, and that's what he had when the O&S came along, I think it would be MUCH more likely that the cross should be a real RK, with handmade O&S attached. The O&S could easily be wartime made, but how would you ever know for sure in the absence of a wartime photo showing wear? There are several photos of Oakleaves and O&S recipients wearing their original RK with handmade higher awards attached. Many of these people actually valued their handmade set more than the original they were later presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Williamson Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Has anyone ever heard of a crew made knights cross. I told it is when a commander was awarded a cross and was still at sea the crew would make a 2nd class iron cross convert and im told could hand craft oak leaves etc. Maybe im been told lies. anyone think its likely. It certainly happened. The problem is finding one with some sort of provenance. The shot here shows one which was made for one of the top U-Boat Aces and a holder of the U-Boat Badge with Diamonds. It came from the family. Without knowing its history it would just be a converted EK2 of little value. Provenance makes all the difference for crew made pieces. They are generally as crude as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnight Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 I have bought this medal since i last posted on this topic. I couldnt resist. Some days I am glad. If it is real then im sure it must be one of a kind. An official version could cost over €20,000. I know a lot of effort went into making it by hand. I also think those making it had not got an original to copy directly from. Perhaps it was based om memory or a photograph. What ever its history im sure there is an interesting story behind it. Has Anyone any further information about field replacement medals or crew maded medals. Any information would be appreciated. Perhap someone has pictures of such pieces being worn during the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickn Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 (edited) I have bought this medal since i last posted on this topic. I couldnt resist. Some days I am glad. If it is real then im sure it must be one of a kind. An official version could cost over €20,000. I know a lot of effort went into making it by hand. I also think those making it had not got an original to copy directly from. Perhaps it was based om memory or a photograph. What ever its history im sure there is an interesting story behind it. Has Anyone any further information about field replacement medals or crew maded medals. Any information would be appreciated. Perhap someone has pictures of such pieces being worn during the war. Sir Knight, Congrats on such a very interesting set that was most likey produced under field conditions. Shame there is not a name attached. My thoughts are this is not a so called "Replacement" but, a piece, field produced upon official announcement of an individual's success prior to the presentation of the formal award. Nice piece! These sort of decorations were obviously produced utilizing materials at hand. Please view the following Ersatz RK in my collection, alleged to have been carved out by a fellow with alot of time on his hands, a POW. Kind regards, Erickn Edited June 26, 2011 by erickn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnight Posted June 27, 2011 Author Share Posted June 27, 2011 Thanks for your comments. Hope you are right and it is a medal produced under field conditons possibly on a u boat. I must check and see what metals were used making it and see where they would have been readily available to troops in action. This version is so unlike an original that it makes me think that it was made in the field where there were no originals to copy. If it were produced as a reproduction for sale i would have thought it would have been more like an original and cast from a die rather than being hand made. I would be grateful for any other comments on this medal or on the subject of field made medals More photos and examples would be grate Sir Knight, Congrats on such a very interesting set that was most likey produced under field conditions. Shame there is not a name attached. My thoughts are this is not a so called "Replacement" but, a piece, field produced upon official announcement of an individual's success prior to the presentation of the formal award. Nice piece! These sort of decorations were obviously produced utilizing materials at hand. Please view the following Ersatz RK in my collection, alleged to have been carved out by a fellow with alot of time on his hands, a POW. Kind regards, Erickn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickn Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Thanks for your comments. Hope you are right and it is a medal produced under field conditons possibly on a u boat. I must check and see what metals were used making it and see where they would have been readily available to troops in action. This version is so unlike an original that it makes me think that it was made in the field where there were no originals to copy. If it were produced as a reproduction for sale i would have thought it would have been more like an original and cast from a die rather than being hand made. I would be grateful for any other comments on this medal or on the subject of field made medals More photos and examples would be grate Sir Knight, Have a look at LTC John R.Angolia's book Fuhrer and Fatherland 1st Edition, pg.366 for an image of a very similar set of OL&S. A bit off topic of Rk but, please view this example of an EK2/1 field conversion. Necessity is the Mother of Invention. Kind regards, Erickn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erickn Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Obverse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnight Posted November 4, 2012 Author Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hi all, Back again with another question. Since i posted pictures of the RK O&S on this web site i have been contacted several times by people looking for it. Given all the doubt there is over its authenticity and on the flip side its rarity if it were a genuine piece, can anyone give me a fair valution for it. Love to hear some fresh opinions on the piece and thanks to all who have already contributed. The Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christerd Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 (edited) There were only 5 KC with Oakleaves and swords awarded to the Kriegsmarine . Otto Kretschmer U 99 Erich Topp U-552 Reinhard Suhren U-564 Wolfgang Lüth U-181 Albrecht Brandi U-181 Otto Kretschmer was a POW from 1941 , all of them survived the war. Edited November 10, 2012 by christerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKnight Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Thanks christerd, I appreciate that the odds are stacked against this medal, but in your opinion then it is not the medal of a u-boat captain. could it be a field replacement medal? What bothers me that is that if it were a reproduction would it not be die cast. Have you ever come accross hand made reproductions of medals which were originally die cast. It seems alot of trouble to go to to make a medal which will not turn out anything like the original. Maybe someone did sit down after the war and hand craft this medal, but why. Would it not be more likely that an officer commisioned someone perhaps a captive to make a field replacement. I understand the statistics are not in favour but do you think it is a possibility that this is a war time piece. I have interest in the medal from others but as to the value, do you think it has any thanks for your post the Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now