NavalMark Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 What is a Spangenstueck? Direct translated "medalbar-piece", a replacement piece bought by the recepient from a jeweler to be placed on the medal bar and always different in some details. To keep the awarded piece at home and to protect it from damage. Regards Markus
nzef1940 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 Sorry to hurt your feelings Sweety. Please re-read your postings and ask you the same. As the youngest who commented here as there I feel offended by your highly ironical postings, and especialy about your thoughts on others age. It's not about age. It's about a disputable order an its owner who has to much faith in it. Here's the thread from WAF, for those who are interrested in it: http://www.wehrmacht...ad.php?t=489432
nzef1940 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 Carfeul Markus I may take you up on that! I have been to Germany a few times 1989, 95 and 98. I love it. Berlin is my favourite European city. I lived in london for 6 years and spent a lot of time travelling around Europe, Germany is a great place. Forget the church though, I am a non believer. All the best. Mike Yes, i know how insulting it is in your eyes, but every serious collector has to show up upgraded/faked items. It would be irresponsible to let someone "believe" this cross would be original in all parts. Funny coincidence, the prussian crown order 4th and 3rd class is at the moment the center piece of interest for comming publications at the german phaleristic society, and if have seen enough ...... If you come to Germany, we can meet in my cabinet and have a look through the microscope .... Or we can visit a church and believe. Regards Markus
Eric Stahlhut Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 it sure would be nice if everyone would please try to remain civil and mature with the comments...this informative and interesting thread is on the verge of being ruined
nzef1940 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 Well said, I apologise. it sure would be nice if everyone would please try to remain civil and mature with the comments...this informative and interesting thread is on the verge of being ruined
NavalMark Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 You´re welcome, but i think now its time for a moderator to "moderate" a little bit. Sweety - Sascha, i think thats your nickname from now on ! Take is as a compliment from a not-believer who believes in his cross ! Regards Markus
nzef1940 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 Markus I am having doubts now, but it was so cheap and the New Zealand source has supplied me with loads on unmessed with vet bought back items. Anyway you are fairly convincing and I have an offer to trade it for a local vet bought back WW1 camo M16 helmet, so i may offload it. What value estimate do you place on the bar?
NavalMark Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Ok Mike, last post of mine in this topic, i wont discuss it, others may. I count the value of the single decorations + bar without the KO4X and i see about 120,- Euro. The KO4 is an original, i think awarded, piece before 1914, but holes has been drilled into the center and casted swords have been added. Value of such a KO4 in good condition is about 200,- Euro (original with swords about 550 at the moment), but with the holes ? I dont know. I would not buy it, anyway, but if someone wants it - 250 -300 Euro i would accept as fair for the bar. Regards Markus
Wild Card Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Relax Gentlemen. To some of us old timers, being referred to as “... who appear to be a bit young?”, this is a rare compliment that I will take any time. In the end, what we seem to have here is a piece that the owner has conceded to not being an original/issue cross. At best, it is indeed a Spangenstuck which opens up endless possibilities. But Gentlemen, I have a question - What are we talking about here!?! In case no one has noticed, the bar presented here (post #2) is mounted in the frak, or reverse, form. The bar originally presented on the WAF in the thread titled “Imperial Group of Five - help please” (post #1) is mounted in the standard (left to right) form. That does it. Thanks for the compliment, have fun with this one Gentlemen; but to quote Samuel Goldwyn “Include me out”. Regards, Wild Card
Eric Stahlhut Posted February 4, 2011 Posted February 4, 2011 Greetings all It has a tiny maltese cross stamped on the ring, the jeweller spotted this under a 20x magnification. cheers Mike i'm fairly certain i have a '14 ek2 somewhere with the same type of hallmark. at some point i will find it and post an image of the mark (if desired). however, one must keep in mind that it ultimately has no bearing on the authenticity of the ko4x
nzef1940 Posted February 4, 2011 Author Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Yeah good, those first images on WAF were the sellers photos, he had taken them with the bar upside down...I thought that was fairly obvious if you read the thread. I am done. 'Comms out' But Gentlemen, I have a question - What are we talking about here!?! In case no one has noticed, the bar presented here (post #2) is mounted in the frak, or reverse, form. The bar originally presented on the WAF in the thread titled "Imperial Group of Five - help please" (post #1) is mounted in the standard (left to right) form. That does it. :speechless: Edited February 4, 2011 by nzef1940
RAO Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Well then I say something too. I see a very strange KRO4X and would never buy such a part. Quite apart from this there were only four awards of KRO4X between 1914 - 1918. Nothing is impossible, but if the sum of weights of the sights you should rely on his intelligence and sense. For me, a clear no go. Regards Mike
dond Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 Who did those 4 awards go too? It seems to me it would be easy to confirm or eliminate those four as the owner of this bar.
RAO Posted February 5, 2011 Posted February 5, 2011 One we all know, Feldwebel d.R. Windisch, later Ltn.d.R. and plm. He died 1918. The other three I have reviewed, none had a Mecklenburg, the current state of research. Regards Mike
Chris Dale Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 The award to Müller was one of a few exceptions, thats correct. He already owned the KO3 and was too young in career to get the RAO3X, so he received "the swords to - die Schwerter zum" KO3. But i am shure his swords were very different .... Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Centenarmedaille Unterleutnant zur See 1897, 03.22.S BLUECHER Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. RAO 4. Kl. Kapitänleutnant 1906, 09.19. Schlachtflotte, Admiralstabsoffizier Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Russ. St.Annen-O. 3. Kl. Kapitänleutnant 1907, 09.17. KAISER WILHELM DER GROSSE, Artillerieoffizier Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. RAO 4. Kl., Krone z. Korvettenkapitän 1909, 06.08. Hochseeflotte, Admiralstabsoffizier Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Sa.Kgr. Albrechts-O. Ritterkreuz 1. Kl. m. Krone Korvettenkapitän 1912, 06.13. Reichsmarineamt Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Kronen-O. 3. Kl. Korvettenkapitän 1913, 03.01. Reichsmarineamt Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Kronen-O. 3. Kl., Schwerter z. Korvettenkapitän 1913, 10.13. EMDEN, Kommandant Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz XXV Jahre Korvettenkapitän 1913, 11.15.R EMDEN, Kommandant Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Chile, Verdienstorden 2. Kl. Fregattenkapitän 1914, 07.14. EMDEN, Kommandant Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Eisernes Kreuz 1914 I. Kl. Fregattenkapitän 1918, 02.14.R EMDEN, Kommandant, in Holland interniert Müller, Karl von 1891, 04.10. Pr. Pour le Mérite Fregattenkapitän 1918, 03.19. EMDEN, Kommandant, in Holland interniert Regards Markus I was just about to post a a question asking if anyone knew which medals Karl von Müller was awarded... then I saw my question had already been answered. You guys are too good! Von Müller seems to have even more medals than those listed in this photo from http://www.exulanten.com/seadevil.html I just wish the photo was a bit bigger/clearer... Cheers Chris
jaeger7 Posted March 14, 2011 Posted March 14, 2011 ... I see we have some of the same members of the other Forum present here, who appear to be a bit young? Perhaps wanting to be proven right all the time? Anyhow I am happy . ... Gentleman, being happy is very important - and if you will ask long enough - you might get the answer you would like to hear to be even more happy... ...but I, maybe being too young, would not be happy with a "cheap" copy. Regards jaeger7-de
militaria0815 Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 In my eyes already too much time wasted talking about that peace of s..., sorry!
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