Imperial Russia December 1918 Photo ID document

[Claudius]

I have had parts of this document translated, but noone could quite tell me what it was exactly for. Why it was issued? etc.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Claudius

[Claudius]

reverse...

[fortech]

Nice document, Claudius.

Looks like a gun possession and carrying license issued in the Ukraine in the turbulent post-revolution year. The text is quite standard and does not imply any special occasion or purpose of this permit other than general use.

[tsarenko1975]

Typical gun lycence of that storming times (for Webley-Scott revolver). Unusual date: 12 december 1918. If you know, 14 december 1918 Kiev was occupied/liberated by Petlyura's troops.

[Claudius]

Thank you Fortech and tsarenko1975 for your translations and insights.

A Webley-Scott revolver -that was misidentified to me. Outstanding. This document would look great next to one. Now I know what to ask for for Christmas!

I didn't know about Petlyura in relationship to this date. Thank you for the information.

and to other inquires...yes, it does look like him, but no, that isn't Jeffery Jones from the movie "Ferris Bueller's Day Off"...

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ferris+bueller%27s+cast+jeffery+jones&view=detail&id=CB4B5ED8DE90BF93EE333A5CA462E3C52D1DD4DF&first=61&FORM=IDFRIR

[Claudius]

On 29/04/2011 at 08:49, tsarenko1975 said:

Typical gun lycence of that storming times (for Webley-Scott revolver). Unusual date: 12 december 1918. If you know, 14 december 1918 Kiev was occupied/liberated by Petlyura's troops.

I have a follow up question (nine years later);

This document to carry a Webley-Scott revolver seems itself to be used during a transitional time.  The document form was originally made for one government agency, but then it was crossed out and a different government authorization was purple ink stamped.

Is the purple ink stamp the Petlyura's government authority, or is the original form, the Petlyura's government.  Or neither?

[JapanX]

Doc was issued to 

Яков Маркович Брегман/Yakov Markovich Bregman

Владелец сего имеет право носить и хранить пистолет системы Веблей-Скот/The owner of this document has a right to carry and keep Webley-Scott gun

Original doc was issued on the letterhead from

Начальник Киевской Столичной Милиции/Head of the Kiev Metropolitan Police

Then it was crossed out and stamp added that reads

Киевский столичный атаман/Kiev metropolitan ataman

The stamp at the photo reads exactly the same.

So they used old unissued form to fill their current needs  

 

This is how typical imperial russia gun permit looks like (Dvinsk, 1907).

 

Regarding Webley & Scott.

Original advertisment.

Edited May 8, 2020 by JapanX

[Claudius]

This is great!

Thank You JapanX!  Once again you brought clarity and understanding.

So, it is these magazine style pistols.  I thought the Webley & Scott it referred to was a six-shot revolver.

 

-Claudius

[Trooper_D]

1 hour ago, JapanX said:

Regarding Webley & Scott.

Original advertisment.

"To be frank Q, 183 looks like a ladies' pistol.* I'll take 182, thanks".

* (although Bond's original pistol, a Beretta 418, was little better, I understand!)

Edited May 7, 2020 by Trooper_D

[JapanX]

2 hours ago, Trooper_D said:

"To be frank Q, 183 looks like a ladies' pistol. I'll take 182, thanks".

 Well, don`t be too picky James   

3 hours ago, Claudius said:

I thought the Webley & Scott it referred to was a six-shot revolver.

They didn`t specify the model. 

Simply

самопал системi Веблей-Скот/a gun of Webley-Scot system.

Edited May 7, 2020 by JapanX

[JapanX]

 

2 hours ago, Trooper_D said:

* (although Bond's original pistol, a Beretta 418, was little better, I understand!)

Both have a very distinct masculine look

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by JapanX

[Bayern]

5 hours ago, JapanX said:

Doc was issued to 

Яков Маркович Брегман/Yakov Markovich Bregman

Владелец сего имеет право носить и держать пистолет системы Веблей-Скот/The owner of this document has a right to carry and hold Webley-Scott gun

Original doc was issued on the letterhead from

Начальник Киевской Столичной Милиции/Head of the Kiev Metropolitan Police

Then it was crossed out and stamp added that reads

Киевский столичный атаман/Kiev metropolitan ataman

The stamp at the photo reads exactly the same.

So they used old unissued form to fill their current needs  

 

This is how typical imperial russia gun permit looks like (Dvinsk, 1907).

 

Regarding Webley & Scott.

Original advertisment.

Very interesting ! The 7.65 mm pistol costed 25 roubles and the 6,35 mm one the same amount

Hello Gentlemen :  1918 was a turbulent year for Ucraina 

[JapanX]

Price list from 1937.

Please, don't forget about "necessity" while travelling "in out-of-the-way places".

Edited May 8, 2020 by JapanX

[JapanX]

Strictly for aficionados of Webley&Scott automatic pistols.

 

A.J.R. Cormack - Webley and Scott Automatic Pistols-Profile Publications Ltd (1972).pdf

[Trooper_D]

14 hours ago, JapanX said:

Strictly for aficionados of Webley&Scott automatic pistols.

A very interesting read! Thank you.

[Bayern]

Thank you !