VITÉZI REND JUBILEE CROSS 1989

[PKeating]

A friend of mine was awarded this certificate and cross in Germany in 1989 for services rendered. He asked that his name and details be obscured. The cross is by Deschler. I looked up the original order of 1921 but we would like to know more about this award. The recipient was told that he could, for instance, wear this in the presence of HM Queen Elizabeth II and other monarchs. So, anyone?

[hunyadi]

Is he Hungarian? I did not know that this award could be given to anyone but a Hungarian citizen - but I may be wrong. This follows the pattern of the 1921 award in some ways but many ways not. This is the Jubilee Cross award of the Order of the Knight. Generally given out for service rendered - or for a commemorative - in the instance that perhaps his father was awarded one prior to the end of WWII?

I will also say that the awarding of these are more liberal than before - one was awarded to the Hungarian Border Gurads - not individually but just as a unit - One award that I knew of personally was for a writer who wrote about Hungary in WWII - he was awarded one... so its not tooo hard to get one

[PKeating]

That is strange. I responded the other day thanking you for your reply but my post is not here. Once again, thank you very much for responding. My friend is British. He was a journalist who proposed bringing a resistance leader back to Budapest n 1989 just before the collapse of Communism for a reunion with an old comrade of the 1956 Uprising.

They were stopped afterwards by some very aggressive security agents but my friend succeeded in concealing the cassette, handing over a camera with a cassette containing harmless images. He says they were detained for a while and were quite frightened. The exiled resistance man had asked him beforehand if he thought the reportage would be good for Hungary and then consulted his comrades. Of course anything that reminds of how badly the Bolsheviks behaved is by default a good thing so they did the story. It was very moving. Later on, my friend was invited to a dinner in London where he was formally awarded this citation and the insignia, issued in Munich. He was told that he could wear this insignia in front of the Queen or any crowned head of Europe as it was absolutely official but he is not the sort of fellow who wears awards.

However, he was recently told by an Anglo-Hungarian colleague that not only could he wear it but could also put "V" before his name, for "Vitéz" and that so could his eldest son on reaching the age of seventeen. He is skeptical of this as the insignia is the Jubilee Cross of the Order of the Vitéz Knights, rather like the MBE as opposed to the CBE or the MVO as opposed to the CVO. I expect that even if it is not too hard to earn this award, it might earn him a few free beers in downtown Budapest, especially as they gave it to him for actually doing something a bit risky for the cause of freedom in Hungary. Like the Border Guards, who took a bit of risk opening the frontier. Mind you, I think the actual border guards who did this should have been individually honoured rather than the unit, as many Hungarian border guards were utter bastards.

PK

PK

Edited June 22, 2011 by PKeating

[hunyadi]

Hi PK - that is interesting - I would have expected that he would have been awarded the Hungarian Cross of Merit for such services rendered. Perhaps it was legitimized as your British agent was working in conjunction with the Hungarian Fighter.

The term Vitez - is the British equivalent to being Knighted in the UK... its a high honor and considering the risks taken two decades ago.

[PKeating]

So the Eton-educated Anglo-Hungarian British civil servant who presented this to my friend was not mistaken when he told my friend that he was a Vitéz Knight. After all, the insignia of the Order of Vitèzi Rend was not awarded at that time and the order itself was effectively dormant. So this was their way of expressing appreciation for services rendered at a certain level.

[hunyadi]

So the Eton-educated Anglo-Hungarian British civil servant who presented this to my friend was not mistaken when he told my friend that he was a Vitéz Knight. After all, the insignia of the Order of Vitèzi Rend was not awarded at that time and the order itself was effectively dormant. So this was their way of expressing appreciation for services rendered at a certain level.

Technically the order is revived - however there is no alotment of 40 acres and a mule. The wearer of this order is (as far as I know) fully able to wear the badge as well. My author friend wore both of them at the same time. I think you are probably correct in that this is a token of appreciation for services rendered at an appropriate level.

[Archer]

Without wishing to unleash World War 3 ...

Could either of you tell me by what fount of honour this order is bestowed? Has the Hungarian Government adopted it as an honour under the official Hungarian honours system. And if so, is it still restricted to Xian recipients? Or is it in fact a self-perpetuating "International Order"?

I am interested in the claim that it can be worn "in front of the Queen or any crowned head of Europe." If a British subject applied for official permission to wear, would their request be granted?

I am NOT attempting to disparage the Order, but I am curious about its status.

William

[PKeating]

From Wikipedia (Yes, I know, it's unreliable but still...)

The Order of Vitéz in modern era

After the end of World War II, veterans' groups including knights appointed by Horthy began work on re-establishing the Order of Vitéz in exile. These efforts were carried largely by monarchist and legitimist groups. In 1953 General Hugó Sónyi (vitéz Sónyi) re-established the Vitéz Order as an order of chivalry according to traditional statutes. Since 1983 Vitéz Order has been awarded to individuals who have been defenders of Hungarian national interests and culture. This Order is registered by the International Commission for Orders of Chivalry (ICOC) as legitimate knightly body under the mark:'Successor of chivalric institution originally founded under the Authority: of a State'. The Captains General of the extant order have been:

HRH Field Marshal Archduke vitéz József von Habsburg (1959-62)

Colonel General vitéz Kisbarnaki Ferenc Farkas (resigning at age 85)

HRH Archduke vitéz Joseph Árpád von Habsburg (appointed 1977)

This last Captain General of the Order signed the above document. On the other hand, the title Vitéz seems to be banned in the Republic of Hungary, according to Statute IV (1947), a communist decree explicitly forbidding the use of various noble titles including Vitéz, described as an hereditary title created by Horthy in 1920. Efforts since the defeat of Bolshevism in 1989 to have this Statute revoked have been unsuccessful. In 2009, the Constitutional Court stated: "... necessary to add that the Statute serves the abolition of discrimination of people on the basis of descent, which is, as the ministerial rationale of the bill conveys, "can not be compatible with the democratic public and social arrangement standing on the basis of equality. Thus, the Statute is supported by such a definite system of values that is consonant with, moreover, is an integral part of the values derived from paragraph 70/A. § (1) of the Constitution in force, prohibiting discrimination."

Total pseudo-egalitarian claptrap uttered by civil servants formed during Bolshevism, sucking up to their political masters in the EUSSR halls of power in Brussels and Strasbourg and drinking from the communal cup of eternal guilt reserved for the losers of WW2. However, the Deputy Prime Minister of Hungary was made a member of the Order in 2010 and in March 2011, proposals for revoking all legislation from 1944 to 1990 have been put forward for consideration, an initiative that would of course see Statute IV abolished.

Other information: http://www.icocregister.org/history.htm As we can see, some fairly heavyweight people and organisations have recognised the Order as still extant. Can it be worn in front of HM Queen Elizabeth II? Given that her husband presided over ICOC congresses, I should think so.

As Hunyadi says, no mule and forty acres, but I will tell my friend that he is indeed a Hungarian knight and that his son may adopt the title as well.

PK

Edited June 23, 2011 by PKeating

[Archer]

Thanks.

Under the ICOC's own Principles involved in assessing the validity of Orders of Chivalry [which state that the 'international “status” of an Order of Knighthood rests ... on the rights of fons honorum, which, according to tradition, must belong to the Authority by which this particular Order is granted, protected or recognised'], it seems difficult to understand how an Order founded by a Regent (although, of course he was de facto head of state), whose authority and regime were abolished at the end of the Second World War, could be "revived" by private citizens as a knightly order in 1953.

The Order of St. Lazarus was less politely treated by the ICOC in 2002. But the views of the ICOC and the real world do not always intersect, of course.

At any rate your friend rendered sterling service and was rightfully honoured by the people he was helping.

[Archer]

P.S. Just a few thoughts on the ICOC.

What is remarkable is how the ICOC has fallen under different influences over time. The Order of St. Lazarus is a good marker of this.

The 1964 edition of the Commission's output recognised St. Lazarus as an Order. In January 1996, when the commission consisted of ten members, no fewer than seven of them were members of that order (see here). But then a new wave of influence broke. The commission became markedly more Italian and Vatican-oriented.

On 27 September 2001, "in order to remove any doubt that there may be Members of the Commission who might indirectly influence the Commission’s free decision making process, it was decided to widen Article VII of the Statutes thus: “... those who are legal representatives, Heads or officers of any body which might at some time be the object of study by the Commission and therefore listed in future in the International Register of Orders of Chivalry can, in no way whatsoever, be part of the Commission. It was further suggested to include a new subdivision: Organisations referring to Orders or Award systems previously bestowed by state bodies in the past.” And the Order of St. Lazarus was consigned to limbo and damned with faint praise:

"it has been decided not to include Saint Lazarus in the 2001 Register, although it is based on the 1964 edition, thus following the precise clarifications the Holy See [hello hello!] has given on a number of occasions through L’Osservatore Romano. ... It should be noted that Saint Lazarus, which thus cannot be considered an order of chivalry, carries out praiseworthy charitable, humanitarian activity producing numerous contributions to social works and therefore it might be included among in a category of Organisations inspired by Chivalry."

What the ICOC says today, it can easily repudiate tomorrow it seems!

William

[speedytop]

Hi,

according to my information a foreigner could not wear the title "Vitez". As "Tiszteletbeli tag" (Honorary Member) he can only be described as a "Member in the Hungarian Military Knight Order".

Therefore his son could not adopt this title.

And furthermore for Vitez:

Die nach dem Kriege wiedergegründeten Orden und ihre Titel haben hingegen keine Rechtsqualität im Sinne des historischen Adelsrechts.

Very rough translation: After the war no legal status in the sense of the historical nobility law.

Please see "Rechtsqualität":

http://de.wikipedia....it%C3%A9zi_Rend

Uwe

[Triadoro]

It would seem that the correct translation of the certificate depicted above is in order.

The certificate states that the recipient is entitled to wear the Jubilee Merit Cross which commemorates the 60th anniversary of the establishment of the Vitez Order.

It in NO way confers the title of VITEZ upon the the recipient of this document.

Edited August 23, 2011 by garfordhouse

[erikscollectables]

It would seem that the correct translation of the certificate depicted above is in order.

The certificate states that the recipient is entitled to wear the Jubilee Merit Cross which commemorates the 60th anniversary of the establishment of the Vitez Order.

It in NO way confers the title of VITEZ upon the the recipient of this document.

Yep I would agree with this.

In the original Vitez order no foreigners were accepted - so you will see no German in WW2 with the order.

There are multiple current day Vitez orders none of which are state orders but "private" chivalric orders - there has been some competition between them. I know some bestow a variation of the Vitez order without the sword to Foreigners for services rendered.

The Hungarian state Order of Vitez was ended by the "Socialists" in 1945.

Erik - www.vitez.6x.to