Czechoslovakian Victory Medals

[Kev in Deva]

As we start out, we can use this thread for Czech Victory Medals, award documents, variations in medals/ribbons, etc.

Tim

My Czechoslovakian Victory Medal.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_07_2009/post-950-1247584649.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_07_2009/post-950-1247584663.jpg

Kevin in Deva.

Edited February 23, 2013 by IrishGunner

[RobW]

To all,

I have posted the following two items on the specific Czech vic forum thread but felt it was also of use in this thread.

Here is a Czech official vic, with 'O. Spaniel' makers mark on the obverse, with a cylinder suspender. These types were replaced with the more commonly seen official vic with a barrel suspender. Note the coarse weave Czech style ribbon.

Regards,

Rob

Edited September 2, 2009 by RobW

[RobW]

Here is another Czech official vic, with 'O. Spaniel' makers mark on the obverse, but this time with a barrel suspender. These types are much more common than the previous cylinder suspender types. Note the coarse weave Czech style ribbon and the unofficial single linden leaf device.

Regards,

Rob

[RobW]

To all,

Here is another official Czech vic with 'O.Spaniel' makers mark and a barrel suspender.

This particular coarse ribbon type is seen less often than that on the previously posted czech vic pics. It is also seen on the different varieties of the Czech produced Belgian vic model. For some reason the recipient lightly buffed this piece.

Regards,

Rob

[Tim B]

Well, late but these are the Czech pieces that I have; all have the O.Spaniel markings.

Tim

[Tim B]

Close-up:

[Tim B]

Here's a second one with a coarser type ribbon.

[Tim B]

Close-ups

[Tim B]

Last Czech one I have; ribbon is more colorful but I assume it's a replacement ribbon?

Tim

[Tim B]

It appears these were more of a gilted finish that has worn over time.

Tim

[RobW]

Last Czech one I have; ribbon is more colorful but I assume it's a replacement ribbon?

Tim

Hello Tim,

Yes this type of ribbon has been seen on many vics coming out of Europe. It is the current contemporary manufacture of what could be considered 'coarse ribbon'. I have seen it on a number of czech vics originating in Belgium and France as well as a couple coming out of the Czech Republic.

Regards,

Rob

[johnnymac]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2009/post-8368-125795724368.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2009/post-8368-125795725645.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2009/post-8368-125795726489.jpg

Hi, I am new to the group and would like to throw something into the pot. I believe this is a Czech, re-issue, type 2? It had at one time a gilded finish as listed in Laslo book. But also it has some things that make it distinct from the official type 1 & 2 and the re-issue type 1. Obverse side, on the bottom by the feet, extra plant leaf veins. On the reverse side, Inside the shield vertical line, and the cross on it lower left arm is much longer. Any help here, JM

Edited November 11, 2009 by johnnymac

[RobW]

Hello johnnymac,

Welcome to the thread! It is good to see that there are a few more vic collectors in this forum.

Yes you are indeed correct in identifying the item as a re-issue, type 2. There were two different varieties of the re-issue type 2 having either a gilt finish or a flat brassy finish. Yours could be either a gilt finished one that has had the finish wear off or it might also be a flat brass finish one.

The Kremnice mint produced re-issue type 1 has a much more darker brass finish and there are also obverse and reverse differences between it and the K & K produced re-issue type 2. Interestingly there are far fewer re-issue type 1 seen than the more readily obtainable re-issue type 2's in the market.

You are also correct in identifying the major differences between the re-issue type 2, re-issue type 1 and the official strike.

There are a number of very slight differences on the reverse including a slightly smaller crown on the double-tailed rampant lion of Bohemia compared to the re-issue type 1, with the base of the double-barred cross (as the Cross of Lorraine) of Slovakia, slightly longer on the left as viewed, with vertical lines in the background. In addition the year dates are slightly larger than that found on the official variety and there is a slightly noticeable difference in the weight, angle, and detail of the surrounding linden leaves.

The most noticeable difference on the obverse is the thicker trio of leaves with veins apparent at the base of the feet of victory as well as a different single flower on the right as viewed. In addition there is no designers name of 'O. Spaniel' which is the most immediate give-away.

The re-issue types were also consistently seen in the paler ribbon variety that you have illustrated.

Hope this has helped.

Regards,

Rob

Edited November 12, 2009 by RobW

[RobW]

Hi Rob, thank for the come back with all that good info on Czech Type 2 re-issue. Is there any dating for this medal "plus or minus".

Thanks, JM

Hello JM,

The Czech re-issue type 2 was produced by the Prague firm of Karnet & Kysely. They were the leading producers of most Czech awards and decorations.

The re-issue type 2 was produced between 1945-1948 and the pale unblended ribbon also dates from that same period. Production of the vic re-issue type 2's and most extant czech awards and decorations ceased in 1948 following the coup d'état of February 1948, when the Communists definitively took power.

Regards,

Rob

Edited November 13, 2009 by RobW

[RobW]

Hello JM,

Here is a Czech re-issue type 2's that has a matte brass finish for comparison.

It also has the common ribbon seen on czech vics produced after WW2.

Regards,

Rob

Edited November 13, 2009 by RobW

[RobW]

JM and others,

For a direct comparison here is the corresponding re-issue type 2 with a gold-gilt finish. While the difference may not be readily apparent from the pic, it is definitely noticeable when you have the two pieces side by side. Note the strength of the green colour in the ribbon of the gilt re-issue type 2 compared to the slightly faded colours of the matte finish re-issue counterpart.

Regards,

Rob

Edited November 13, 2009 by RobW

[RobW]

To all,

To close the loop from the earlier Czech reissue type's here is a reissue type 1.

It has a cylinder suspension with a number of minor obverse and reverse die variations compared to the official strikes and the later reissues.

Regards,

Rob

Edited November 20, 2009 by RobW

[johnnymac]

To Rob,



Question



It seem a lot of Czech & Japan VM’s. being posted on ebay, at least 2 to 3 a every week. Is this just a smart person(s) buying them up and remarketing them because the market is there, or is it a snake oil salesmen selling from his wagon? The bulk of the Japanese vic seems to be type1 and the Czech’s are a mixed bag of type 2 to 4 but never type 1?



JM

Edited February 16, 2013 by IrishGunner

[RobW]

To Rob,

It seem a lot of Czech & Japan VM's. being posted on ebay, at least 2 to 3 a every week. Is this just a smart person(s) buying them up and remarketing them because the market is there, or is it a snake oil salesmen selling from his wagon? The bulk of the Japanese vic seems to be type1 and the Czech's are a mixed bag of type 2 to 4 but never type 1?

JM

Hello JM,

It is not untoward or unusual to see the Czech and Japan vics turning up on ebay. A close look at the sellers location indicates, in some cases, either the Czech Republic or Japan so there shouldn't be any trouble there. Having said that there are also vendors in the U.S. and Europe selling reproductions and other copies of a more dubious nature so you do have to beware.

The real trick with the Japan vic is to try and find them with their box in good condition, and then there is the issue of the corresponding award certificate.

As for the Czech type 1 vics you are right in stating that there never seems to be any on ebay. The reason they are rarely seen is because they are scarce. They are a particularly hard item to obtain and even the collectors I know in Prague, Czech Republic have indicated they are not seen on market very often. One collector in Prague stated he hadn't seen one for a couple of years. I would be patient as they still turn up from time to time.

The Czech type 1's have been seen in both a shiny and matte bronze finish, as well as a much darker bronze. They are generally seen on a cylinder suspender. I have posted pics of one of mine, with a shiny bronze finish, previously on the Czechoslovakia WW1 Victory Medal thread, which is the 'Central & Eastern European States: Non Communist Era' topic.

Regards,

Rob

Edited November 27, 2009 by RobW

[RobW]

And here are the close-ups.

The 'LA' mark on the obverse, in between the head and the hand, is a bit difficult to see but the one on the reverse, just after 1919 is readily noticeable. Note the darker bronze finish.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

Edited November 27, 2009 by RobW

[Thomas Symmonds]

And a view of Victory meal number 13 - lucky number I hope, somewhere...

It has a very nice ,I am told, original Czech ribbon.

.. and the close ups ...

regards

Thomas

[RobW]

And a view of Victory medal number 13 - lucky number I hope, somewhere...

It has a very nice ,I am told, original Czech ribbon.

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

Yes it is a nice Czech re-issue type 2. The ribbon is, as you have suggested, an original one that was used with the re-issue Czech pieces that were produced immediately following World War 2. Comparison pics are on the thread at posts #27, #214, and #215.

It is always nice to obtain a piece with the 'correct to period' ribbon as it adds to the authenticity of the piece and can be referred to later.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Rob

[Tony]

Here's a Czech VM I have. The ribbon appears to be nice and old, does anyone think it could be a Czech issue or should it belong to another country's VM?

Tony

Edited February 18, 2013 by IrishGunner

[RobW]

Can't explain the double post above, maybe it's me but never mind.

Here's a Czech VM I have. The ribbon appears to be nice and old, does anyone think it could be a Czech issue or should it belong to another country's VM?

Tony

Tony,

You have a nice Czech official strike with yet another variation of the unblended ribbon that is seen with Czech vics. Yours has the more commonly seen barrel suspender. Those earlier strikes, produced by Alexander Leisek, had a cylindrical suspender.

Regards,

Rob

Edited June 25, 2010 by RobW

[Tim B]

Tony,

That's definitely a differernt pattern to the Czech ribbon! So much variety in these.

Tim