French Victory Medals

[Bilco]

Hi Rob,

I'm interested to see the version with the blank central disk. It looks significantly smaller than the other medal. I have an example which is the same size as the standard :

Diameter 36.5mm, thickness 2.3mm, with the Delande punch and BRONZE on the edge. I gave it a gentle clean, and it appears to be Delande's  bronze doré, like yours.

Bill

[sumserbrown]

Hi Bill

sorry for the slow response, I had to buy some new calipers. My type 2 is 36.1mm diameter and 2.2mm thick at the 3 o'clock position . The 2c is 27mm diameter and 1.4mm thick

Rob

[Jean-Michel]

Hello Rob,

Your 27mm model in gilded bronze on the flankless reverse, is not an Allied medal. However, Alexlander J. LASLO considered it unofficial type 1a. Alexander Laslo mentions that the stock of this medal has been used for other medals, except that it is the reverse. The house "Delande" made this medal with the blank reverse for various associations.

In 1921, France still not having an official model, the military wore either a Belgian uniface model or a Charles model, the "Delande" house therefore took the opportunity to publish a model from its generic model.
This model was marketed in the catalog of the house "Delande" in June 1921.
If one follows logic, there are only two medals which were produced exclusively as an Allied medal, the official model "Morlon" and the unofficial "Charles" model. This is why on my site, I do not classify the "Pautot-Mattéi" and "Charles" medals as official models but as curiosities.
However, your medal remains interesting, because according to the ribbon,
I think if Alexander J. Laslo was still in the world he would have published a new book, because at the time he wrote his last book he did not have the internet resources that we have today.
I take this opportunity to congratulate you on the quality of the models you own.
Best regards,

Jean-Michel

[sumserbrown]

On 11/01/2022 at 12:07, Jean-Michel said:

Hello Rob,

Your 27mm model in gilded bronze on the flankless reverse, is not an Allied medal. However, Alexlander J. LASLO considered it unofficial type 1a. Alexander Laslo mentions that the stock of this medal has been used for other medals, except that it is the reverse. The house "Delande" made this medal with the blank reverse for various associations.

In 1921, France still not having an official model, the military wore either a Belgian uniface model or a Charles model, the "Delande" house therefore took the opportunity to publish a model from its generic model.
This model was marketed in the catalog of the house "Delande" in June 1921.
If one follows logic, there are only two medals which were produced exclusively as an Allied medal, the official model "Morlon" and the unofficial "Charles" model. This is why on my site, I do not classify the "Pautot-Mattéi" and "Charles" medals as official models but as curiosities.
However, your medal remains interesting, because according to the ribbon,
I think if Alexander J. Laslo was still in the world he would have published a new book, because at the time he wrote his last book he did not have the internet resources that we have today.
I take this opportunity to congratulate you on the quality of the models you own.
Best regards,

Jean-Michel

Thanks Jean-Michel, that is very interesting. Do you happen to know how rare the 27mm Pautot-Mattei model is compared to the normal version?

Rob

[Jean-Michel]

Hello Rob,

The 27mm model is rare with the inscription on the reverse "THE GREAT WAR FOR CIVILIZATION 1914-1918", I saw it a few times at auction in Paris. It's one of my regrets not to have bought one of these models, but at the time, my collection was not only focused on the victory medal. I do not despair of finding a copy.

For your medal, it is an unusual medal by its size and its gilded metal, but it lacks the inscription on the reverse to make it a true unofficial model.

https://www.medaillesinteralliees.fr/france-2
Regards,

 

Jean-Michel

[sumserbrown]

On 21/04/2022 at 19:12, Jean-Michel said:

Hello Rob,

The 27mm model is rare with the inscription on the reverse "THE GREAT WAR FOR CIVILIZATION 1914-1918", I saw it a few times at auction in Paris. It's one of my regrets not to have bought one of these models, but at the time, my collection was not only focused on the victory medal. I do not despair of finding a copy.

For your medal, it is an unusual medal by its size and its gilded metal, but it lacks the inscription on the reverse to make it a true unofficial model.

https://www.medaillesinteralliees.fr/france-2
Regards,

 

Jean-Michel

Thanks Jean-Michel,

your information, as always, is extremely useful.

Rob

[No one]

Dear Gentlemen,

 

Here is an interesting refusal letter (February 1st, 1931) requesting interallied medal 14-18 because the soldier has not completed 18 months of presence in the army zone "n'ayant pas accompli 18 mois de presence dans la zone des armées./ not having completed 18 months of presence in the army zone.".

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one

[RobW]

Hello No One,

 

An interesting artefact indeed. The French were very prescriptive in the award qualification criteria for their interallied vic. Some of the more interesting award certificates are of the 'external theatres' which had even more restrictive qualifying areas and conditions.

 

It is this diversity of award and qualifying certificates which makes collecting vic documents so rewarding, especially if you have some background to the recipient as well.

 

Regards,

Rob

[dron]

Good afternoon. 

I would like to hear your opinion on the correctness of the medal.  There are no marks on the side of the medal. 

Sincerely!

[dron]

Good evening. I ask for your opinion on the medal. The Victory Medal (French: Medalha da vitória) is an unofficial version designed by K. Charles. The stamp on the rim is missing. Sincerely, Dron.

[RobW]

On 25/06/2024 at 17:51, dron said:

Good afternoon. 

I would like to hear your opinion on the correctness of the medal.  There are no marks on the side of the medal. 

Sincerely!

 

Hello dron,

 

It looks like a good example of the unofficial type 2 (Laslo classification). You mention there are no markings on the medal edge. I would expect to at least see the BRONZE marking somewhere on the rim.

 

Having said that there are examples that do not have any edge markings, either BRONZE or the makers mark, but these are quite rarely seen.

 

Regards,

Rob

On 19/08/2024 at 05:21, dron said:

Good evening. I ask for your opinion on the medal. The Victory Medal (French: Medalha da vitória) is an unofficial version designed by K. Charles. The stamp on the rim is missing. Sincerely, Dron.

 

Hello dron,

 

A good example of the unofficial type 1 (Laslo classification). It is unusual to see examples that have no edge markings although they are seen from time to time; normally with a planchet that has a slightly shinier bronze finish.

 

I have also seen an example without any edge markings that had a barrel suspender in the fashion of the official French strike, but these examples are rare indeed.

 

Regards,

Rob

[dron]

Good evening. Thank you Rob for your answers. It is becoming very difficult to purchase unofficial editions of French medals.

Sincerely, Drone.

[RobW]

Hello Drone,

 

Yes; availability comes and goes with the marketplace quantity fluctuating wildly at times. If you are looking for a specific unofficial variety it is best to keep a watching eye on the online auction houses as well as the more established commercial vendors. Of course the scourge of 'fakes' of all varieties of vic only seem to be on the increase.

 

While it doesn't happen often larger more substantial collections occasionally come on to the market which have both quantity and quality for new and old collectors alike.

 

Inevitably all collectors come to a point where they dispose of their collection, so it pays to be patient.

 

Regards,

Rob