RobW Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 (edited) As we start out, we can use this thread for Brazilian Victory Medals, award documents, variations in medals/ribbons, etc. I see there are a couple of existing threads already. These will be moved into this thread. Tim Here is a Brazil vic on loan to me; an official type 2 according to Mr Laslo's book (no edge mintmark). Regards, Rob Edited February 18, 2013 by IrishGunner
RobW Posted July 18, 2009 Author Posted July 18, 2009 (edited) To all,Here is the accompanying miniature for the Brazil vic. Produced in France it is not often found. The diameter is 15.5mm.More to follow.Regards,Rob Edited July 18, 2009 by RobW
Tim B Posted June 22, 2011 Posted June 22, 2011 As we start out, we can use this thread for Brazilian Victory Medals, award documents, variations in medals/ribbons, etc. I see there are a couple of existing threads already. These will be moved into this thread. Tim :cheers:
lambert Posted July 8, 2011 Posted July 8, 2011 (edited) The Portugese Victory Medal was created in June 1923 along the lines established in early 1919 and respected by allies that adopt the collective commemorative medal. A diploma is awarded the medal The model is the work of Brazilian writer Jorge Soubre There are two main productions Type 1: the official form produced by the Mint of Rio that bear the marks of the hand (Casa da Moeda - Rio Type 2: the model of private production (Facilities The Royal) identical but unmarked on the side The originals have a patina of your "brown". However, we found more and more often this medal with very dark patina, is a variant of a known or a reissue? In addition, A. Laslo in his book shows a small ring soldered to the medal and through which passes the ribbon ring suspension. It is nevertheless true that, with style Siamese "official" currency of the rarest of the series. I'm posting photos of a small piece of treasure that is the Brazilian WWI Victory Medal. which unfortunately is not my collection. This is a Mini. 15,48mm All the Best Lambert Edited February 18, 2013 by IrishGunner
lambert Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 Transcript of the Decree that created the Brazilian Vic. DECREE 16.074 - 22 JUNE 1923 It creates a commemorative medal inter-ally, called "Victory Medal" The President of the United States of Brazil, whereas in January 24, 1919 the Peace Conference adopted the proposal of Marshal Foch, so that all the fighters of the Great War received a commemorative medal that same used by them at all parts of the world, will keep the eternal feelings of camaraderie that you do on the battlefield, the strength of armies, and ensure the memory, during peace, the greatness of the Allied nations, whereas an inter-allied established later that this medal was called " Victory Medal," and that the rules for granting it should be such as to avoid its confusion with any other commemorative medal, decides on the proposal of Ministry of the Navy, and in harmony with the basic principles set out by the commission, order the following: Article 1 It is a commemorative medal created inter-ally, called " Victory Medal." Article 2 This medal is bronze frosted round with 0m, 036 in diameter, 0m, 004 thick, and fringed with two palms, and the center of the front of the symbolic figure of Victoria, standing in front on a plain background and no inscription or date. In the back will have the national shield encircled by the shields of the allied and associated nations, all encircled by the 'Great war for civilization. " Article 3 The medal is suspended from a ribbon, like all the allies and associates, whose colors are the rainbow of two juxtaposed side by red with a white wire on each side. This Ribbon will 0m, 0m, and 036 wide, 040 long. Article 4 will be entitled the " Victory Medal " all military personnel or civilians who have been employed in actual war service by a minimum space of three months, set out below: 1º, Officers, NCOs, and lower squares in the Navy, including cabin boys and contractors, who served in the squadron in military operations at any time between the departure of their units on the island of Fernando de Noronha on August 1, 1918 and his return to the same island on May 19, 1919; 2º, officials of the National Army and below that, being incorporated into the French Army by virtue of art. 2º do decreto n. 2 of Decree No 3.427, de 27 de dezembro de 1917, com ele combateram; 3427 of 27 December 1917, fought with him; 3º, the naval officers who are appointed by the warnings of the Ministry of Marine ns. 140, 141, 142, 143 and 144, January 8, 1918, 386, 387, 388 and 389 of January 22, 1918, to practice and study aviation in England, there were actually employed on duty patrolling back ; 4º, the Navy officers, appointed by the Ministry of Marine warnings ns. 1233, to March 29, 1917, 3447, to September 18, 1917, and 4747 of December 12, 1917, to serve in the Navy of the United States of America, which in this Nation warships, made part of U.S. forces in war service; 5º, the Brazilian civilians who enlisted and fought in Allied armies or navies; 6º, the Brazilian military and naval attaches next to England, France, Italy and United States of America, who have served in these places after October 26, 1917 until the date of the armistice; 7º, members of military missions organized by the warnings ns. 4680 of December 7, 1917 and 4735 of 11 December 1917, the Ministry of Marine and notice number 428 of 18 May 1917, the Ministry of War, who served on these committees at any time between the dates of appointment and the armistice; 8º, the Brazilian members of the medical mission organized by the decree n. 13092 of July 10, 1918, who have been in hospitals for victims of war or administration work relating to them in France, Italy, England and Belgium; 9º, the military or navy of the National Army who received the Cross of Campaign 1914 to 1919, referred to the decree n. 15600 of August 11, 1922, and those who have cooperated effectively in war service. Article 5 shall not be entitled * Victory Medal ", with about one quarter included in the article, the deserters, convicts and those excluded from the Army and Navy, by sentence or disciplinary action. Article 6 The competent departments of the Ministries of War and Navy will organize from the outset to understand relations all military, currently living in conditions of receiving the Victory Medal *, "according to the provisions of this decree, and all civil under the same conditions that these ministries have depended on the time of services rendered or settlements that have them. The list shall show for each of the military therein, the current post and had to order the services provided. Article 7 The military that are not included in the relations mentioned in art. 6, or civilians about whom there are no official settlements, require the Ministry of War or Navy, as appropriate, the grant of the Victory Medal * "gathering documents to prove their right. Article 8 organizes the relations mentioned in art. 6º, or established rights of applicants, according to art. 7º, will be plowed the decrees granting the medal and sent to interested diplomas and medals, including those signed in the Ministries of War and Navy, respectively, by the heads of the Central Department of the Navy and the Province. Article 9 A * Victory Medal "will be used on the left breast, as follows: 1º, the military, according to its uniform policy; 2º, in uniform who, by their regulations, whether to use the ribbond of the medals or decorations on a folded Bar instead of themselves, will also be used to ribbon * Victory Medal " folded over a Bar; 3º, and civilians, as well as the military, in civilian clothes, they will use the medal on the left breast. Article 10. And civilians, as well as the military in civilian clothes may use the tape's distinctive folded over a Bar, as indicated in art. 9º, paragraph 3 rd, with the narrow ribbon with the colors themselves, stuck in his lapel, or even chest, a reduction of the medal, with 0m, 015, in diameter, suspended or current pin itself. Article 11. Revokes the provisions to the contrary. Rio de Janeiro, June 22, 1923, 102 and 35 of the Independence of the Republic. Arthur da Silva Bernardes. Alexandre Faria de Alencar. Setembrino Fernando de Carvalho
Tim B Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 Excellent info and thanks for keeping it going! Tim
lambert Posted August 27, 2011 Posted August 27, 2011 More detailed the Brazilian Vic. Tipe 2 Reverse Detailed : J S ( Jorge Soubre)
lambert Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I found a very rare photo of a Journal of the Brazilian Navy, the Victory Medal, and I want to share with the Gentlemen. Photo taken in 1939 at 50 years of the Proclamation of the Republic Among some decorations are: Vic Brazilian end Commemorative Medal of the Royal Visit to Brazil (1920) Admiral Henrique Aristides Guilhem Edited February 2, 2012 by lambert
Bilco Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 Hi Gents, Laslo says that the Brazilian vic, in both Type 1 and Type 2, has a wire suspension. I've recently come across this French site with pictures if all the Allies vics, and for Brazil it shows one with a cylinder suspension - http://www.medailles1914-1918.fr/bresil-interalli.html So, my question - is this a fake, a repro, a French-produced Unofficial type, or what? It has the proper diacritical marks on the C and A of Civilisacao. Bill
paul wood Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Hi Gents, Laslo says that the Brazilian vic, in both Type 1 and Type 2, has a wire suspension. I've recently come across this French site with pictures if all the Allies vics, and for Brazil it shows one with a cylinder suspension - http://www.medailles...-interalli.html So, my question - is this a fake, a repro, a French-produced Unofficial type, or what? It has the proper diacritical marks on the C and A of Civilisacao. Bill Having only ever seen type 2s I know they always have a wire suspension but i have never seen a type 1 which I consider to be by far the rarest Victory medal (I have handled 6 Thai, 3 Brazil type 2 but never a Brazil type 1). Do any members own such a rare beastie, Paul
lambert Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Hi Alls Everyone I've ever seen, are of type 2 (without the manufacturer's mark), Some of those present at the forum, seen even in photos, the type 1 with wire suspension and marking? Apparently the Medal with cylindrical suspension, there seems to be a copy, the winged figure is exactly identical to type 2. Suggests that is a variant of production? Lambert
Bilco Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Hi Lambert, It's interesting that no-one has yet owned up to having seen a Type 1! It raises the possibility that Laslo hadn't either, and was mis-informed about it's suspension. I enlarged the section of the photo of the Admiral that you posted to show his medals It seems to me that his Victory medal - I think it's the second from the left on his bar - appears to have a thicker suspension than I would expect to see if he had the wire type, so it could be that he has the Type 1. It's a shame the French site http://www.medailles...-interalli.html doesn't say where the private collection with the cylinder-type suspension is to be found. It says that it has the Rio Mint marking on the rim so, unless it's a very clever copy, it should be official. I guess we need someone to post a photo of a Type 1 so we can see what's what. Bill
lambert Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Hi Bill I talked with Brazilian collectors, and all (that I know) have only the type 2 unmarked. By the photo it is hard to know for sure. I think it is possible, that Type 1 is very draught for only small naval officers, and subsequently left the medals Type 2 in 1923. Of course, this does not explain the medal support system (type 1"a") Lambert
lambert Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Hello all, Here the image of the extremely rare, Diploma of the Victory Medal. purchased by a collector friend in Rio de Janeiro. It is a very rare. Courtesy: Julio Zary. Major http://www.hmmb.com.br/forum Lambert Edited March 12, 2012 by lambert
lambert Posted March 12, 2012 Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) I am very happy to show it to you. Diploma offered to the Captain of Corvette, Francisco Magno Barroso on April 4, 1934. (16 years after the end of WWI !!!) The captain also participated in operations in the atlantic during World War 2, as acting commander of the Naval Command North, from 09.27.1943 to 20.10.1943, as Captain of Sea and War. (Capitão de Mar e Guerra) Lambert Edited March 12, 2012 by lambert
juliozary Posted March 19, 2012 Posted March 19, 2012 Hello guys, note that the medal designed on diploma has the wire suspension type. I have seen about 10 Vic medals here in Brazil. I think 4 of them had CASA DA MOEDA signs, but most part of the rest do not. In 10 medals, I didn't see any with the cylinder suspension, however I believe it can exist and is a original time period medal (20 or 30`s) Cheers. Julio
juliozary Posted March 23, 2012 Posted March 23, 2012 Here a picture of my Vic Medal and 1917/18 combatant's cross (french made) Greetings from Rio. Julio
RobW Posted May 10, 2012 Author Posted May 10, 2012 Hi Rob. These are the medals of Cuba, Brazil and Siam you see, are the most expensive .. Lambert Hello Lambert, You would indeed be correct that those three are becoming much harder to find. Given that you are in Brazil I would have thought that you would have more chance than most to locate a specimen. As Julio states above they are not seen that often in Brazil either, but I think you would have a better chance than most. There is currently a Brazil vic, official type 2, listed at Liverpoolmedals: http://www.liverpool...-very-rare.html There is always the option of a contemporary reproduction piece to use as a 'space filler' until a suitable specimen is found. Regards, Rob
lambert Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 Hi Rob. Prices scary! I think I'll sell some parts to get more money for them. Regards Lambert
lambert Posted May 12, 2012 Posted May 12, 2012 (edited) I recently saw a sample sale here in Brazil. for about $ 1600 U.S. dollars. rasoavel much more than in the UK site ... yet I hope to find it cheaper (a little). Even more, with my wedding approaching (in October), This depleted my cash reserves. It was not in my mind has a copy of this, but perhaps for teaching purposes; Lambert Edited May 12, 2012 by lambert
RobW Posted May 14, 2012 Author Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Having only ever seen type 2s I know they always have a wire suspension but i have never seen a type 1 which I consider to be by far the rarest Victory medal (I have handled 6 Thai, 3 Brazil type 2 but never a Brazil type 1). Do any members own such a rare beastie, Paul Yes Paul; I do. It's interesting that no-one has yet owned up to having seen a Type 1! It raises the possibility that Laslo hadn't either, and was mis-informed about it's suspension. Bill Hello Bill, Laslo did indeed correctly identify the suspension in the illustration in both editions of his book. It also clearly shows the CASA DA-MOEDA makers mark on the rim. I guess we need someone to post a photo of a Type 1 so we can see what's what. Bill My type 1 has a wire suspension exactly the same as that illustrated in the Laslo volumes. Regards, Rob Edited May 14, 2012 by RobW
Bilco Posted May 14, 2012 Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Hi Rob, Many thanks for your comments on your Type 1 - It certainly appears that the wire suspension is the norm for the Type 1 and Type 2. Which brings us back to the one on the French site - http://www.medailles...-interalli.html According to the site the Type 1 shownl has the CASA DA-MOEDA makers mark, and the picture shows the proper diacritical marks on the C and A of Civilisacao. Maybe the suspension has been repaired, or it's a one-off from the Mint - or a fake? Bill Edited May 14, 2012 by Bilco
RobW Posted May 14, 2012 Author Posted May 14, 2012 (edited) Hi Rob, .... Which brings us back to the one on the French site - http://www.medailles...-interalli.html According to the site the Type 1 shownl has the CASA DA-MOEDA makers mark, and the picture shows the proper diacritical marks on the C and A of Civilisacao. Maybe the suspension has been repaired, or it's a one-off from the Mint - or a fake? Bill Hello Bill, Apart from the fact that it is suspended by Italian ribbon I think it looks okay. Probably just a trial or other variety. Regards, Rob Edited May 14, 2012 by RobW
lambert Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Hello Bill, Apart from the fact that it is suspended by Italian ribbon I think it looks okay. Probably just a trial or other variety. Regards, Rob Hello All Or just a repair on the medal, it may be simpler than a new variation Remembering that, I have not seen of a Medal type, with marks on the rim. Lambert
lambert Posted June 9, 2012 Posted June 9, 2012 Recently I purchased a copy of the vic Brazil, (For didactic purposes) a well-known British merchant. I'll show pictures later. Lambert
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