Moderators Choice Peninsular GSM?

[Spasm]

Gents

Had a bit of a surprise today. It's a bit of a story but hang in as I need some help.

One of my other half's relatives is taking herself of to a home for the elderly as she's alone now and can't look after herself. We visited today and during the visit she says to me "oh there's my (now deceased) husband's dad's medals in the box there have a look". So inside are three medals - now I'm no medal expert hence this post - there are two WW1, an allied victory medal and british war medal and another that I didn't know that well but it's (I think) a General Service Medal with a young Victoria on the obverse. This one has seven (yes count them) seven clasps. I can only remember Vittoria, Pyrenees, Nivelle, Toulouse but there were seven.

I believe this is a serious piece of metal and although she wasn't about to part with it (I did try), I would like to let her know just what she may have and what it may be worth.

Can you guys help? I've no pictures but I suppose I could get them if needed when we visit next.

Thanks in advance

Spaz

This post has been promoted to an article

[paddywhack]

sounds indeed like a serious piece of metal and sound like peninsular GSM!!any name on the medal?

[Spasm]

Yep, the name is stamped around the rim. I wasn't sure what I was holding. But I hope I will next time I go.

Cheers

spaz

Edited September 19, 2011 by Spasm

[GRA]

One of these?

http://www.dnw.co.uk/medals/resources/medalrolls/militarygeneralservice/

/Jonas

[Spasm]

Yep, one of those :)

[Hugh]

I wouldn't publish her full name or address, or you'll find one of our British collectors climbing over her back hedge! Sounds like a very impressive piece. I'll be happy to keep it safe for her if you like.

Hugh

[Spasm]

Hugh

I would be glad to do that as well now that it seems as though it's a serious piece of metal. I'll be letting her know next time I go on just how serious.

Spaz

Edited September 19, 2011 by Spasm

[Mervyn Mitton]

Spaz - what a pity if she falls out of the window now - you will be at least a suspect. This is a valuable medal - if untouched - and I really feel it is unwise for her to take it to an old age home. I regret saying this, however, there are many unscrupulous people who hang around these homes trying to buy things cheaply. The Bank would be safest - perhaps you could offer to hold-it for her and give a letter stating clearly that it is her property ?

[Spasm]

Mervyn

PM sent. I'm going to try to get back there soon to wipe the place of my fingerprints.

Cheers

Spaz

[Spasm]

Gents and Gentesses

The window wasn't big enough but I've borrowed it (on a sort of permanent basis)

She arrived yesterday along with a ten bob note and two WW1 medals. I've had a joyful time proving the provenance and now know that this has been passed from the original awardee through a few generations of blood and married relatives into my sweaty palm. Isn't it just a wonderful thing?

I've only put up the one straight on picture of the young Victoria and battle clasps (I know, I know, 5 instead of 7 - I plead insanity). I'll be thinking up arty ones for the competition and until then ya'll will have to wait for the name and regiment

If you look closely you can see that the ribbon is much too wide for the hanger and clasps and has been folded - what's that all about? Has the original been replaced? has it stretched? got wet? should I change it? should I even play with it?

Pleased as punch

Spaz

[Mervyn Mitton]

Steve - at this stage don't touch it. Looking at the clasps for the suspender I think I am seeing some signs of work. Someone else needs to give their opinion. Perhaps it is just cleaning over the years - however, we see a lot of Zulu War medals that were brooch mounted at one time.

I'm not sure where you live - but why not have a day trip to London and call On Spink's and Dix, Noone and Webb? Mervyn

[Spasm]

Mervyn

Looking really closely, even with a lens, I'm pretty sure it hasn't been touched. Admittedly, it hasn't been treated as the family jewels (as it should have) and has taken some knocks, clearly shown in the picture, but it has been rubbing up against two other medals in a little box for at least the last 50 years. And who knows where it's been kept before then.

I promise I won't touch it, but the ribbon is a little annoying. It will be paying a visit to the Regiment's museum soon and probably into town to S&D,N&W as well when we next go visiting the Grandkids in London.

By the way everyone, just found out yesterday (was a good day yesterday ) that the third instalment in the Grandchildren's fight over my collection is going to be a baby girl - due in January. (Cigar for you innit Chris?) Sorry Little excited, better go have a lay down.

Spaz

[Ulsterman]

Fantastic!!! Congratulations! . I am curious as to the regiment- I am betting a Foot regiment of the line....I was talking to someone the other day about KGL medals that are still in family hands. The numbers we know of in circulation are very small compared to the total awards (and there weren't a lot of original awards to begin with). In many cases we figure there are fewer than 200 medals to a regiment for the entire war.

[Spasm]

Thanks for that Ulsterman

Good bet - 39th Foot. Not knowing medals I've had quite a fascinating time with this one and it's going to carry on a for a bit till I get the whole story (may be a while but I'll get there and when I do it will be posted here)(and only here).

These guys had to wait 30 odd years before these medals were available. And then they had to apply. No applications were accepted from widows, even those who died in the 30 year wait. No wonder less than 200 per regiment.

Spaz

[censlenov]

If you post the recipient i can confirm the clasps for you if you'd like. Or is it Simon Fuzzy?

Cheers

Chris

[Ulsterman]

very cool. Of course his application and service file are all in London-in fact...I thought they were on-line nowadays. 39th foot! Dorsetshire with pea green facings!Balfour was the Colonel. There is an excellent account of the 39ths' attack at Bayonne wherein they ended up crossing bayonets and engaging in really horrific hand-to-hand combat with the french infantry (who had fired too high just before the battalions had reached the crest of the hill-the bullets going over the heads of the men, but sweeping the mounted officers from their horses.

You lucky dog!!!

I just looked in British Battles and Medals-344 medals total to the 39th......but ONLY 82 clasps for Nivelle and 102 for Orthes!

[Spasm]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!!

I knew it, you're all just way tooooooooooo clever at this. I shouldn't have given any clues. It gets interesting here and I was saving it for later once I knew it all and could show off.

I may as well recruit you all then - explain this for me - seeing as you have the rolls (Remember I have the relative under lock and key, you have the expertise):

Edited September 22, 2011 by Spasm

[Paul_1957]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!!

I knew it, you're all just way tooooooooooo clever at this. I shouldn't have given any clues. It gets interesting here and I was saving it for later once I knew it all and could show off.

I may as well recruit you all then - explain this for me - seeing as you have the rolls (Remember I have the relative under lock and key, you have the expertise):

In the medal roll held in the National Archives under reference WO 100/9 his surname is listed as Fussey. However, in the separate medal roll held under reference WO 100/6 his surname is listed as Fuzzy. It is not unusual to find spelling variations in a man's surname in medal rolls/muster lists etc.

Paul

[Spasm]

Paul

Thanks for that. I'm waiting for National Archives to get back to me as I've asked them to copy the "Fuzzy" entries for me. I've never had anything from the National Archives other than medal cards, is it worth getting the "Fussey" entries as well just in case they differ?

Just a bit strange that the Medal Roll has Fuzzy with the medal saying Fussey - I would have thought those two would have been the same. Records I have found for him so far from Births Marriages Deaths have listed him as either Fuzzy or Fuzzey but never Fussey. Not surprised though seeing as he was from a small village in Somerset, probably couldn't write so relied on what others heard him say with his thick accent.

This is getting quite interesting, I'm gonna catch the medal bug, I can just see it. Held in hand, these old British medals are just fantastic.

[Paul_1957]

Paul

Thanks for that. I'm waiting for National Archives to get back to me as I've asked them to copy the "Fuzzy" entries for me. I've never had anything from the National Archives other than medal cards, is it worth getting the "Fussey" entries as well just in case they differ?

Just a bit strange that the Medal Roll has Fuzzy with the medal saying Fussey - I would have thought those two would have been the same. Records I have found for him so far from Births Marriages Deaths have listed him as either Fuzzy or Fuzzey but never Fussey. Not surprised though seeing as he was from a small village in Somerset, probably couldn't write so relied on what others heard him say with his thick accent.

This is getting quite interesting, I'm gonna catch the medal bug, I can just see it. Held in hand, these old British medals are just fantastic.

Both of the references I quoted in my previous post are medal rolls for the Military General Service Medal. So you have one medal roll saying Fuzzy and the other roll saying Fussey. It suggests that the medals were named from a version of the roll where his name was given as Fussey.

The WO 100/9 document says Fussey Simon, 39th Foot, Vittoria, Pyrenees, Nivelle, Orthes, Toulouse, 5 actions admitted.

The WO 100/6 document says Fuzzy Fussey Simon, 39th Foot, McPherson's Company, Vittoria, Pyrenees, Nivelle, Orthes, Toulouse.

The word Fussey is written above Fuzzy Simon but it has had a line drawn through it to cross it out.

Paul

[Spasm]

Paul

Thanks for that. Must admit I've been trawling over the National Archives website since seeing your post and have given up - it must be me. The website isn't that user friendly for useless computer people like me. So your information is greatfully received. I'll wait for them to send me the stuff I've ordered.

This is the first I've heard of McPherson's Company so have another lead to go looking for. I'll be off to the 39th museum soon where they can do a search in their archive for a donation so this will help.

Thanks

[Paul_1957]

Paul

Thanks for that. Must admit I've been trawling over the National Archives website since seeing your post and have given up - it must be me. The website isn't that user friendly for useless computer people like me. So your information is greatfully received. I'll wait for them to send me the stuff I've ordered.

This is the first I've heard of McPherson's Company so have another lead to go looking for. I'll be off to the 39th museum soon where they can do a search in their archive for a donation so this will help.

Thanks

The only thing that you will find on the National Archives website is an entry in the catalogue describing what WO 100/6 and WO 100/9 are. The images of the actual rolls themselves are viewable using Ancestry.co.uk (by subscription).

The reference to McPherson appears to refer to Captain Donald MacPherson who served in the Peninsular with the 2nd Battalion 39th Foot from July 1809 to December 1811 and then with the 1st Battalion 39th Foot from January 1812 onwards. Fuzzy/Fussey must have served in MacPherson's company at some point during 1813-1814.

Paul

[Spasm]

Ah, that'll be why then.

I've been browsing t'tinternet trying to find badges, insignia etc for the 39th to put together a small display around this medal. It's pretty difficult to find anything that is acurately dated to the peninsular wars. Can anyone help in posting some pictures of badges etc so that I can track down the right ones for the 39th to obtain.

Thanks in advance chaps

Spaz

[PKeating]

So glad you managed to persuade her to let you look after the stuff. Things have a nasty habit of disappearing from retirement homes. Often nicked by ill-paid staff. I recently exposed a case where over £1 million of classic motorcycles were taken from an old chap's house after he died in a hospice but before his funeral and, of course, well before any attempt at inventory for probate. Anyone with an elderly relative in a home should have their valuable possessions inventoried by a notary or the family solicitor, in the presence of the home management, just so that there is a record of them. It happens in hospitals. After my mother died of dehydration in a British hospital following a ruptured ulcer - they "made her comfortable" because they thought she was eighty instead of sixty, after three days on the floor of her home, and let her die - we couldn't find any of her rings or the gold pendant she always wore. Stolen off her body. And as for lending anything to museums: don't! It'll be stolen by staff or sold off out the back door before you can say Jack Robinson.

[Spasm]

Don't know what to say to that. Just sad. I'm so sorry about your mother.

Greed, and a large dollop of it, that's all it is.

It's difficult to have those conversations, especially with relatives, as is the case here, as they are sometimes very private and it feels like prying. Even though you are trying to help it's a difficult thing to not only raise but also to discuss. British as well, so we find those sort of questions difficult.

Remember it's not about what you've got, it's about what you do.

The medals will stay with me - forever - until the kids or grandkids have the choice.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Spasm