JapanX Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Well, do you still have any doubts about this Kite? ;)
JapanX Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) And I dind`t even manipulated with the angles... Just took more or less suitable photos from scanotheca. Edited January 13, 2012 by JapanX
JapanX Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 ... the evidence thus far does not support the classification. What evidence Paul? Everything is in the eye of beholder as I just demostrated. But you are sure one generous adviser and one strict judge. They say that one good turn deserves another. My piece of advise for you is Medice, cura te ipsum!
Richard LaTondre Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 2 If you want to know more about this gentleman see: www.thegoldenkite.com Richard
JapanX Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 If you want to know more about this gentleman see: www.thegoldenkite.com Richard I was sure that you will like this gentleman Richard Regards, Nick
DavidS Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Think this should qualify as a documented award. 5th Class Golden Kite awarded to OKada Hitoshi, awarded 23.09.39. See extract from a 1941 book listing Japanese soldiers KIA in China Incident. Translation provided reads: Engineer Sergeant-Major Holder of the 5th Class Golden Kite and 7th Class Rising Sun Okada Hitoshi Registered home: Hiroshima Prefecture, Toyota District, Tadanoumi Town Date of birth: Taisho 4 [1915] June 13 Place of death: Near a public field He landed in front of the enemy and served as a boat captain. In the landing operations at Poyang Lake as well as Dongting Lake, he served as a boat captain, braving the high waves and the rain of enemy bullets. In the midst of the dead and dying, he encouraged his crew with shouts and yells. In order to avoid sinking, he directed the vessel around mines and was able to land the boat in a field that was full of enemy soldiers. He prayed for the safe landing of his vessel and became the leader of each and every soldier who was on board with him. Although he was able to land the vessel safely, the bullets of the enemy pierced his chest and he died honourably, a hero Pictures of Medal and Award Document to follow
JapanX Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 · Hidden by Paul L Murphy, January 15, 2012 - No reason given Hidden by Paul L Murphy, January 15, 2012 - No reason given Sorry David, but in this thread we accept as evidence only blur, unclear photos of kites made at least from couple of meters And then it is well established fact that ... the evidence thus far does not support the classification. Best regards and many thanks for posting, Nick P.S. Amazing award, for amazing deed, in amazing condition and with amazing doc! Congrats!
JapanX Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Kite in excellent condition awarded for truly heroic deed and on document!!! This is a golden kite breeder dream!!! Congrats! And by the way now we have a new date for silver kanji boxes! Isn't it nice?! Indeed! Thanks mate! Cheers, Nick Edited January 15, 2012 by JapanX
Paul L Murphy Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 award document and case David, A lovely group. Can you post a close up of the left hand side of the certificate since I would like to read the number (it is just a bit too small for me). Regards, Paul
Paul L Murphy Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 And by the way now we have new date for silver kanji boxes! Isn't it nice?! Indeed! Thanks mate! Cheers, Nick And it matches your Type 7 in your classification, which is good.
DavidS Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 David, A lovely group. Can you post a close up of the left hand side of the certificate since I would like to read the number (it is just a bit too small for me). Regards, Paul closeup herewith - if it's not clear enough yet, I can send direct to you glad you like these - came with 7th Class Rising Sun + doc, and China Incident + doc. Also China Incident cash award for merit. All medals separately cased & in Medal Display Case
Paul L Murphy Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 Perfect, many thanks. This is certificate 227,647 (but you probably knew that already). It fits perfectly in with the sequence of awards I have already got in my certificate database since 179,377 was awarded on 25th Sept 1938 and 231,129 was awarded on 8th December 1939. 48,270 awards (at least) of the Golden Kite in the year from Sept 38 - Sept 39 gives a good indication of either how much fighting was going on or how much more generous the government had become in awarding Golden Kites !
JapanX Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) And it matches your Type 7 in your classification, which is good. Well I am a little confused here. If this is indeed good thing, then how we could use this rule? Posted 12 September 2006 - 19:57 For the collector who has not had the opportunity of examining a large number of orders the easiest way to date a 3rd, 4th or 5th class Golden Kite is with reference to the rivets on the reverse. The basic rule can be summarised as the closer the rivets, the older the piece. Edited January 15, 2012 by JapanX
Paul L Murphy Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 Well I am a little confused here. If this is indeed good thing, then how we could use this rule? We can't ! That is why I have now removed that post since the theory no longer fits the latest evidence.
JapanX Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Well I am still a little bit confused. Could you please tell me what kind of evidences did you used to create this rivet rule? Because I was under the impression (this impression was created by your numerous highly skeptical and critical comments on my posts) that, unlike me, you are using 100% authentical documented groups to support all your theories. And if this is not the case, then why you made such uncompromising (also often unfair and wrong) critical comments on my hypothesis?
Paul L Murphy Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 Nick, A very fair question. You are correct that I only use authenticated and proven items, where it is possible to be certain of the date of award, to support my theories. Up to now the proven Golden Kite 3rd to 5th class items that I have handled have supported my theory regarding the position of the rivets changing over time. Hence why I came to the conclusion that it could be used as a simple guideline to work out the relative age of these orders. I have seen a number of the types of Kite posted in this thread, but never with documents or in circumstances that could confirm the period in which they belonged. This latest group clearly shows that my theory about the position of the rivets does not hold true, hence it needs to be abandoned. I have no interest in holding on to theories or hypothesis if they are shown to be incorrect. Like everyone else here I merely seek the truth so that we can better understand these items. As for my skeptical and critical comments, they are not directed at you as an individual so I apologise if I caused offence. You are well able to give as good as you get so I suggest we call it quits in that regard. My scepticism is directed at any and all hypotesis that are not supported by hard evidence. I have collected medals for 31 years (Japanese medals for 22 years) and I have seen my fair share of crank theories about medals that hold no water but mislead young collectors. Hence my desire to ensure that anything stated as being correct is in fact supported by evidence. I will be as hard on myself as I will on others (I have plenty of theories that I have not shared since I cannot get them to a level where I am happy with the proof) but hopefully the end result will be a better understanding of the truth behind the history of these medals rather than the fiction that grows up around so many things in our hobby. Regards, Paul
Richard LaTondre Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Gentlemen: We are all learning so much from the both of you. Please dont be offended by each other's viepoint. Richard
JapanX Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Gentlemen: We are all learning so much from the both of you. Please dont be offended by each other's viepoint. Richard We definitely should give it a try dear Richard Regards, Nick
Dieter3 Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 For Nick's analysis, Genral Nogi's Golden Kite. Sorry Nick, picture is not very good! What do you think?
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