EK 1914 EKII 1914: Original or not? Mark?

[Silberstrand]

Hello everybody,

I would like to know if this EK is original or not and the maker, please

Thank you very much!

[gregM]

Original cross. Not sure about the ribbon. The maker's mark is "Wilm"

It is a fairly common maker however I don't believe we actually know who Wilm was.

[Silberstrand]

Thank you very much gregM!

Are you sure about the marker? I though maybe it was a "Wilm" mark but I don't know what means the final "L", for example. Any idea? More people think the ribbon is not original... at least feel it original make me happy

[saschaw]

I agree on WILM, who by the way was a Berlin jeweler.

[speedytop]

Uwe

[Silberstrand]

Uwe

What dou you mean when you say "Uwe", speedytop? So do you are agree too? Thanks

I have found a picture of an action house in Vancouver and the Cross looks like mine 8color, numbers...):

This is mine:

and on this action house I could read that the maker was possibly WILM (H.J. WILM, HOF - UND SILBERSCHMIEDE

[Silberstrand]

Ah! And could this be an original document? And to be so as to correspond to an award of Iron Cross Second Class in the Great War? Because they may have to do with my cross, coz the seller of my cross wrote in the information that he had the real documents too... What do you think?

Thank you very much, mates.

[speedytop]

Hi Silberstrand,

I agree with WILM.

And yes, it is an original EK II document.

Uwe (my first name) :unsure:

[Silberstrand]

Hi Silberstrand,

I agree with WILM.

And yes, it is an original EK II document.

Uwe (my first name)

Ach so! Das ist einer typische deutsche Name, aber ich hatte anderes Dinge gedacht. Entschuldigungen Sie :speechless:

[Silberstrand]

Hello again,

Sunday went by an antiquary of Old Warsaw has some of militaria and decided to introduce the next day with the EKII 1914 that you saw in the photos to confirm whether it was an original or not (in hand should be more easier than with photos), and then I thought about leaving it in his hands, thinking that even though they had no idea I would get a certificate with information, photos (pictures ¿? HA! ...) Well, I was told topick "good news is an original cross. "Anyway, I told them also mirasen manufacturer's brand ... What canyou believe I said the dealer at first that there was and had to decíselo the partner and can finally look like a microscope but not before? "Shame," I thought, but I also said the tape also was true but no explanation ...but do not think so, and only photos of 2, 3 and 4 people doubt the ribbon (and I had also bought another tape at a flea market because he preferred being a new not original ...). Overall, I left the store 7 euros less and a role as follows:

Translated data appearing in it are: the description of the piece (this is in English), the material, period, country, actions, damages or not, status, maintenance recommendations and finally it is an ancient objectthat be drawn from the country without problems. In the paragraph below is estimated the material(between 150-280-300 zł [36-67-72 €]) and the information that if you want to sell NOW is worth 150zł (36€).

Would you ever tried anything like that? ¿You ask a certificate when buying a web of militaria items or laterin some way (which is me, to have it, then maybe sell what you have with a certificate ...)? Do you oftenhave these items as they appear in my "certificate"?

I have another photo over marking:

And then a note of what you saw in the antique marking (roughly speaking and writing with his hand to paper) ie WII. UL (the dot appears to be a little triangle or a point and the "U" is not at all clear, hence theinterragación you have written down the same, may form a letter along with the stroke of the last character:

For me it's something I I W. IVL or VL or finally WII WIIM and before the last alleged "M" had an "L WILM but as I said is not clear.

However it could be a yet unknown manufacturer or a own mark of the owner

</p>

[Silberstrand]

Hello again,

Sunday went by an antiquary of Old Warsaw has some of militaria and decided to introduce the next day with the EKII 1914 that you saw in the photos to confirm whether it was an original or not (in hand should be more easier than with photos), and then I thought about leaving it in his hands, thinking that even though they had no idea I would get a certificate with information, photos (pictures ¿? HA! ...) Well, I was told topick "good news is an original cross. "Anyway, I told them also mirasen manufacturer's brand ... What canyou believe I said the dealer at first that there was and had to decíselo the partner and can finally look like a microscope but not before? "Shame," I thought, but I also said the tape also was true but no explanation ...but do not think so, and only photos of 2, 3 and 4 people doubt the ribbon (and I had also bought another tape at a flea market because he preferred being a new not original ...). Overall, I left the store 7 euros less and a role as follows:

Translated data appearing in it are: the description of the piece (this is in English), the material, period, country, actions, damages or not, status, maintenance recommendations and finally it is an ancient objectthat be drawn from the country without problems. In the paragraph below is estimated the material(between 150-280-300 zł [36-67-72 €]) and the information that if you want to sell NOW is worth 150zł (36€).

Would you ever tried anything like that? Do you ask certificate when buying a web of militaria items or later in some way (which is me,to have it,then maybe sell what you have with a certificate...)? Do you often have these items as they appear in my "certificate"?

I have another photo overmarking:

And then a note of what you saw in the antique marking (roughly speaking and writing with his hand to paper) WII.UL (the second character seems to be a little triangle or a point and the "U" is not at all clear, hence the interrogation you have written down the same, may form a letter along with the stroke of the last character:

For me it's something like W I I . IVL or W I I VL or finally W I I M and before the last alleged"M" would have an L "L" of WILM but as I said this is not clear.

[hagahr]

here's a good WILM mark

Holland verzamelt.nl - 1870/1813 OBSERVATIONS

Edited March 2, 2012 by hagahr

[hagahr]

and the back..

Holland verzamelt.nl - 1870/1813 OBSERVATIONS

Edited March 2, 2012 by hagahr

[Silberstrand]

Thank you hagahr!

So it should be a WILM maker cross!

I have the opportunity to buy the original document of this cross so I think I am going to buy it too... An Iron Cross without document if you have a possibility to buy it maybe is bad option not to have it. Don't you think? But maybe it should have had bought with the cross and not separate. Now I need spend 30 euros more.

[Silberstrand]

2 questions more:

Do you have any idea about the ribbon at first sight? It is not original? I think it is suspicious cause of both edges. It is somewhat soft, shine a little, is something grayish white (in the pictures is whiter).

And the last one. What do you have to keep this kind of kross? Is it normal the sell of these original boxes or replicas? I prefer not to keep it in a little plastic bag, of course.

Thank you very very much!

[hagahr]

there's no telling if the document and the cross artificial married ...or originally together from the start .

but ,,,if you think it wood complete the picture you have in mind don't be a Ebenesar schcroodge with you're money .

buy it .

[hagahr]

2 questions more:

Do you have any idea about the ribbon at first sight? It is not original? I think it is suspicious cause of both edges. It is somewhat soft, shine a little, is something grayish white (in the pictures is whiter).

And the last one. What do you have to keep this kind of kross? Is it normal the sell of these original boxes or replicas? I prefer not to keep it in a little plastic bag, of course.

Thank you very very much!

the ribbon is hard to judge just by the picture you have ,,,I don't want to go in to that opinion wise .

as fore the storing and keeping

there is no storing and displaying method in the world that has not being try'd on these crosses

so you can let youre fantasy go nuts as much as you want .

just keep it away from moisture , chemicals ,acid;s and sticky fingers .

and you be save .

[Silberstrand]

Sorry, I forgot to put better photos about the ribbon:

[hagahr]

(if it is not glowing up with black light )

chances are that this ribbon is one of the ribbons off a later date as 1918/20 .

I wood say 1930 to 1950"s ,,hard to say

what is not a problem ,,

because most are from that period anyway .

regards kay

Edited March 6, 2012 by hagahr

[Silberstrand]

How is the prove of the "dark light"? I heard something about but I do not know it very well. Do I turn off the light and if the white stripes shine is good?

[hagahr]

blacklight

BlackLight.com - Fun Lighting, Black Lights, Contemporary Furniture ...

synthetics glow with black light ..

but ,,,I never tested the general believes it would work .....

regards kay

[Silberstrand]

Thank you hagahr!

[marrauder]

Many good repro ribbons don´t glow under the black light. Same with burn test. If repro ribbon is made of 100% cotton, it burns and smells very similarly to old ribbon (mainly when you haven´t old one to compare). Personally I believe only painted ribbons, where the contrast stripe (white on black ribbon) is painted over the all-black ribbon. If you fold old ribbon, and you slightly "torture" it between the fingers, the paint uses to crack and leaves "vein" (see picture).

On repro ribbons, the thread on stripes (white on combatant ribbon) is woven to the black base. If you put repro (combatant) ribbon under the microscope, or strong lens, you can raise a simple piece of white thread from the black base with a needle tip. Then you can put it back and ribbon looks like before. If you try to do the same on original painted ribbon, you will scratch the paint on surface and that point will be scratched forever.